Married Saudi Females, Keep Your Mobile Phone Charged!

[Richard Tarleton]

I think there are other situations where the assumption that everyone has a mobile phone,

In our local gastropub, I find it easiest to photograph the blackboard with the day's specials so that we can peruse it sitting down, rather than hang about by the bar discussing it....

[Beef Oven!]

If this is a liberalising reform - I wouldn't wish to be categorical without greater comprehension - it fits in with changes re driving as mentioned and also cinema attendance. The latter is a substantial symbol of some greater openness towards western society. The power of the media and so on. It is not so in line with various other stories about the fate of a journalist, not that we can really know the detail there. There was talk not so long ago that the country was about to become the next Israel which is to say far more liberal, notwithstanding, say, Palestine. But the jury is out on the longer term given the mixed messages. Plus there is an inevitable confusion of hopes with facts as change occurs with the key resource running out.

I support the condemnation in other posts of many aspects of the international relationships involved. I am also acutely aware that any genuine initiatives for peace are inevitably based on alliances with devils so as to defeat the even worse. Who is what depends on any given time and the way that the people involved see things in the round. So I don't have answers or aspirations here, nor interest in being a commentator. The insiders know best and often they know little. But if this mild measure is for the good as it could seem, then I see no reason why any decision has to be texted, if it has, rather than communicated in another way. It isn't all one way, this, in that we do look at what other countries are doing and often follow suit. Japanese on robots. Canadians on dope. Saudis being assumed to have mobiles etc. All possible here. Mostly, I don't want an expectation here that we will all carry mobile phones.

(And I did say to one kind forum member that I wasn't going to become embroiled so I won't be but this hopefully helps to clarify my position on the mildest liberalism in Saudi Arabia)

I wouldn't want a law here that requires us to carry a mobile phone. There's no chance of it, so we needn't worry - our track-record on ID cards for example, shows that we Brits (at least the old-skool ones) place too high a premium on individual liberty and freedom from the state, to accept such legislation (Thank God for the Enlightenment!). Saudis on the other hand, base their domestic law on religious laws, Sharia from the Koran and Hadith. From this starting point, rather than one of reason and debate, it's inevitable that Saudi women find themselves in the position that they are in.

[Serial_Apologist]

I wouldn't want a law here that requires us to carry a mobile phone. There's no chance of it, so we needn't worry - our track-record on ID cards for example, shows that we Brits (at least the old-skool ones) place too high a premium on individual liberty and freedom from the state, to accept such legislation (Thank God for the Enlightenment!). Saudis on the other hand, base their domestic law on religious laws, Sharia from the Koran and Hadith. From this starting point, rather than one of reason and debate, it's inevitable that Saudi women find themselves in the position that they are in.

It's very difficult to envision change for societies so-based, given that the rewards are postponed, so to speak, and not for seeking in this world, unless you're of a servile or masochistic disposition.

[Beef Oven!]

It's very difficult to envision change for societies so-based, given that the rewards are postponed, so to speak, and not for seeking in this world, unless you're of a servile or masochistic disposition.

Sounds interesting but I'm not sure what you mean by the last part, can you clarify?

[Serial_Apologist]

Sounds interesting but I'm not sure what you mean by the last part, can you clarify?

Unless you (not you I hasten to add) are inclined to acqiesce to the idea of laws laid down by some cosmic authirity which has put people here on earth for the purpose of policing them. It's one thing to challenge earthly authority, another to challenge the supposed order of the universe! This as I see it is how successive religions have been used, to keep people in their place.

[Beef Oven!]

Unless you (not you I hasten to add) are inclined to acqiesce to the idea of laws laid down by some cosmic authirity which has put people here on earth for the purpose of policing them. It's one thing to challenge earthly authority, another to challenge the supposed order of the universe! This as I see it is how successive religions have been used, to keep people in their place.

In that regard, the current case of young Saudi national, Ms Rahaf al-Qunun as reported on the BBC News website, is an interesting one. At this moment, she's resisting being sent back to Kuwait where her family is waiting for her. She wants to seek asylum in Australia. She fears that having renounced Islam, her father will kill her. Freedom of religion is not protected by Saudi law and the crime of apostasy is punishable by execution.

But the Saudi's haven't executed anyone for apostasy for some time - is this a sign that the regime is liberalising or just managing outsider perception of their country?

[Serial_Apologist]

In that regard, the current case of young Saudi national, Ms Rahaf al-Qunun as reported on the BBC News website, is an interesting one. At this moment, she's resisting being sent back to Kuwait where her family is waiting for her. She wants to seek asylum in Australia. She fears that having renounced Islam, her father will kill her. Freedom of religion is not protected by Saudi law and the crime of apostasy is punishable by execution.

But the Saudi's haven't executed anyone for apostasy for some time - is this a sign that the regime is liberalising or just managing outsider perception of their country?

Gosh, who's to say? Going by past records they don't really need to gain outside vindication... alternatives to oil have yet to become any kind of deciding factor.

[Lat-Literal]

I wouldn't want a law here that requires us to carry a mobile phone. There's no chance of it, so we needn't worry - our track-record on ID cards for example, shows that we Brits (at least the old-skool ones) place too high a premium on individual liberty and freedom from the state, to accept such legislation (Thank God for the Enlightenment!). Saudis on the other hand, base their domestic law on religious laws, Sharia from the Koran and Hadith. From this starting point, rather than one of reason and debate, it's inevitable that Saudi women find themselves in the position that they are in.

Many thanks for responding which I appreciate.

[Dave2002]

In our local gastropub, I find it easiest to photograph the blackboard with the day's specials so that we can peruse it sitting down, rather than hang about by the bar discussing it....

Yes, but that's your choice. I'm not suggesting that mobile phones should be banned or not used. Obviously in some situations this is often very convenient and efficient, but I don't think it should be a requirement that we all have one, or that we are all microchipped, or that we all have embedded wifi so that our location is known wherever we go etc.

[Dave2002]

In that regard, the current case of young Saudi national, Ms Rahaf al-Qunun as reported on the BBC News website, is an interesting one. At this moment, she's resisting being sent back to Kuwait where her family is waiting for her. She wants to seek asylum in Australia. She fears that having renounced Islam, her father will kill her. Freedom of religion is not protected by Saudi law and the crime of apostasy is punishable by execution.

But the Saudi's haven't executed anyone for apostasy for some time - is this a sign that the regime is liberalising or just managing outsider perception of their country?

It's interesting that the Thai authorities have now allowed her protection with UNHCR support. Also it's interesting that Thailand has a lot of refugees, but is not a signatory to international agreements for the protection of refugees.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46777848

[Bryn]

I wouldn't want a law here that requires us to carry a mobile phone. There's no chance of it, so we needn't worry - our track-record on ID cards for example, shows that we Brits (at least the old-skool ones) place too high a premium on individual liberty and freedom from the state, to accept such legislation (Thank God for the Enlightenment!). Saudis on the other hand, base their domestic law on religious laws, Sharia from the Koran and Hadith. From this starting point, rather than one of reason and debate, it's inevitable that Saudi women find themselves in the position that they are in.

From what I can find via t'Internet, UK Citizens are still not required to hold a passport in order to enter (or, stictly, to leave) the country. How any such a citizen might comfirm their citizenship is unclear. Perhaps a Driving Licence or National Bus Pass would do the trick?

[vinteuil]

From what I can find via t'Internet, UK Citizens are still not required to hold a passport in order to enter (or, stictly, to leave) the country. How any such a citizen might comfirm their citizenship is unclear. Perhaps a Driving Licence or National Bus Pass would do the trick?

... presumably one needs a passport when flying from London to Belfast, even tho' both are in the same United Kingdom, because the airlines require them for security porpoises. Do you need a passport if taking a ferry from Great Britain to Northern Ireland?

.

[Bryn]

... presumably one needs a passport when flying from London to Belfast, even tho' both are in the same United Kingdom, because the airlines require them for security porpoises. Do you need a passport if taking a ferry from Great Britain to Northern Ireland?

.

I never needed one during 'the troubles', so no, and not to travel to the rest of Ireland, either.

[Richard Tarleton]

... presumably one needs a passport when flying from London to Belfast, even tho' both are in the same United Kingdom, because the airlines require them for security porpoises. Do you need a passport if taking a ferry from Great Britain to Northern Ireland?

.

No, neither, and they don't. I lived in NI from '79 to '92 and went backwards and forwards a lot. It's part of the UK after all. Security was heavy at Gate 49 at Heathrow back in the day, though.

[french frank]

No, neither, and they don't. I lived in NI from '79 to '92 and went backwards and forwards a lot. It's part of the UK after all. Security was heavy at Gate 49 at Heathrow back in the day, though.

Presumably if you did (on the grounds that the carrier would want to check identity), you'd also need to show travel/identity docs if travelling by train to Scotland (airlines and ferries were only mentioned by the Passport Office as examples)!? Or Wales.