A Point of View...Roger Scruton

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  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 30526

    Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
    Of course. It's a religion of peace with lots of options on how you practice it.
    Yes, but you said it was 'regarded as theologically indivisible'. But when Mohammed preached and converted people to Islam, he didn't think of it as being a separate religion from Christianity and Judaism. There was one God, creator of the world, and Mohammed merely taught that Muslims should live a 'godly' life which was nothing to do with theology or doctrine. Zannah was something that no one could be certain of: social justice and compassion were at the centre of Islam. So when one talks about Islamophobia, what exactly are people attacking?
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

    Comment

    • Beef Oven!
      Ex-member
      • Sep 2013
      • 18147

      Originally posted by french frank View Post
      Yes, but you said it was 'regarded as theologically indivisible'. But when Mohammed preached and converted people to Islam, he didn't think of it as being a separate religion from Christianity and Judaism. There was one God, creator of the world, and Mohammed merely taught that Muslims should live a 'godly' life which was nothing to do with theology or doctrine. Zannah was something that no one could be certain of: social justice and compassion were at the centre of Islam. So when one talks about Islamophobia, what exactly are people attacking?
      I don't know if I actually understand what 'Islamophobia' is.

      Comment

      • ferneyhoughgeliebte
        Gone fishin'
        • Sep 2011
        • 30163

        Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
        No, it’s not that. There are plenty of individuals who espouse intolerant, odious ideas on LGBT, same sex marriage, gender roles etc from an Islamic theological/doctrinal perspective and he doesn’t go after them. It must be something else.
        Indeed, but these odious bigots haven't had a BBC R4 broadcast (thank ... who/whatever, even if s/he/it doesn't exist) recently. Scruton has; that is why his ideas have resulted in this Thread and these exchanges.
        [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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        • MrGongGong
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 18357

          Some people are obsessed with Islam as a "threat" and seem completely unable to seperate the evil head choppers of Saudi Arabia (our good friends who we can sell lots of weapons to) from followers of Islam like Abdullah Ibrahim or Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

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          • Beef Oven!
            Ex-member
            • Sep 2013
            • 18147

            Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
            Indeed, but these odious bigots haven't had a BBC R4 broadcast (thank ... who/whatever, even if s/he/it doesn't exist) recently. Scruton has; that is why his ideas have resulted in this Thread and these exchanges.
            Remind me of the transmission date of Trump's Radio 4 broadcast - the one that sent MrGG into orbit about Trump's alleged misogyny. MrGG public burned his bra .........

            Comment

            • french frank
              Administrator/Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 30526

              Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
              I don't know if I actually understand what 'Islamophobia' is.
              I don't think it means much more than 'fear' and 'hatred' of Muslims. When the chap said he voted in the referendum 'to keep the Muslims out of the country', that's Islamophobia. And it goes with an undifferentiated view of Muslims. In justice, you have to be clear what it is you're attacking.
              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

              Comment

              • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                Gone fishin'
                • Sep 2011
                • 30163

                Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                Remind me of the transmission date of Trump's Radio 4 broadcast - the one that sent MrGG into orbit about Trump's alleged misogyny. MrGG public burned his bra .........
                Trump wears a bra??!!
                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                Comment

                • Beef Oven!
                  Ex-member
                  • Sep 2013
                  • 18147

                  Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                  Trump wears a bra??!!
                  I knew you was gonna say that! You're nearly as predictable me!

                  Comment

                  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                    Gone fishin'
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 30163

                    Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                    I knew you was gonna say that! You're nearly as predictable me!
                    I'm working on it.
                    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                    Comment

                    • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                      Gone fishin'
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 30163

                      See?
                      [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                      Comment

                      • Beef Oven!
                        Ex-member
                        • Sep 2013
                        • 18147

                        Originally posted by french frank View Post
                        I don't think it means much more than 'fear' and 'hatred' of Muslims. When the chap said he voted in the referendum 'to keep the Muslims out of the country', that's Islamophobia. And it goes with an undifferentiated view of Muslims. In justice, you have to be clear what it is you're attacking.
                        If that's all it is, why does it need a pseudo-clinical name?

                        Comment

                        • french frank
                          Administrator/Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 30526

                          Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                          If that's all it is, why does it need a pseudo-clinical name?
                          The strength of feeling makes it important. What it's called hardly matters. Phobia, as meaning 'fear'. is a cliché e.g arachnophobia, anatidaephobia . Incidentally, there's a very interesting chapter on 'Fundamentalism' and how it distorts and reinterprets the teachings of religions, Islam being only one of many religions which has been influenced by the 'onslaught' of modern culture and secularism which is seen as seeking to destroy the perceived 'immutables' of a religion.
                          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                          Comment

                          • gradus
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 5631

                            Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                            There are divisions in absolutely everything. And Islam is regarded as theologically indivisible, at least by Muslims. The only divisions in Islam concern Jurispudence and not theology. Unlike Christianity where there are fundamental divisions of theology.
                            I had understood that Muslims mostly divide into Sunni and Shia sects with theological differences that are deep and long-lasting. In addition there are a number of other Islamic faith groups whose views make them the enemy of Sunnis or Shias or both. Division marks the faith.

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                            • Beef Oven!
                              Ex-member
                              • Sep 2013
                              • 18147

                              Originally posted by french frank View Post
                              The strength of feeling makes it important. What it's called hardly matters. Phobia, as meaning 'fear'. is a cliché e.g arachnophobia, anatidaephobia . Incidentally, there's a very interesting chapter on 'Fundamentalism' and how it distorts and reinterprets the teachings of religions, Islam being only one of many religions which has been influenced by the 'onslaught' of modern culture and secularism which is seen as seeking to destroy the perceived 'immutables' of a religion.
                              Does that chapter say that there is a difference between 'fundamentalists' and yer common or garden Muslim concerning say, homosexuality? I mean above and beyond throwing them off buildings and stuff like that.

                              Comment

                              • Beef Oven!
                                Ex-member
                                • Sep 2013
                                • 18147

                                Originally posted by gradus View Post
                                I had understood that Muslims mostly divide into Sunni and Shia sects with theological differences that are deep and long-lasting. In addition there are a number of other Islamic faith groups whose views make them the enemy of Sunnis or Shias or both. Division marks the faith.
                                What are the deep theological differences that you are relying on here?

                                Comment

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