A Point of View...Roger Scruton

[french frank]

I've just listened to the talk (it's only 10 mins long) and this is all fairly general, taking, I think, a fairly objective view on some aspects of modern society, which has seen a rise in 'hatred', 'witch-hunts' and 'scapegoating'. There is a hint of his own personal views, but little on political themes; mainly sociological.

Social media is picked on as a vehicle, not a cause (perhaps underestimated); but 'political correctness' gives rise to hatred, witch-hunts and scapegoating. Here I found the argument slightly dishonest. There's a perfunctory nod towards pc as being intended to defend the vulnerable and disadvantaged, but that's then tossed off to concentrate on what he means by political correctness which I think was rather unnuanced. Political correctness is BAD, creating 'thought crimes'. It dictates that there's only one way of thinking on homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia, feminism, is intolerant of the 'incorrect', and against dialogue and argument.

He doesn't go into his own views on topics which have been controversial: homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia, feminism but the subtext is that he is/has been(?) a victim of political correctness on all these matters. There are two references - to the 'traditional way of life' and defending 'the old' - which might legitimately be taken to reflect a reactoinary attitude.

His quote from the Koran is a good lesson, but was it somewhat disingenuous? "The servants of the All-Compassionate One, when challenged by the ignorant, speak peaceably." I view it all with suspicion because I'm a cynic. But I speak peaceably

[MrGongGong]

His quote from the Koran is a good lesson, but was it somewhat disingenuous? "The servants of the All-Compassionate One, when challenged by the ignorant, speak peaceably." I view it all with suspicion because I'm a cynic. But I speak peaceably: smiley:

I thought it was a pathetic attempt by him to show how "even-handed" he is
and it really didn't come across in any way as sincere

(neither does playing the game of trying to make other people say particular words of condemnation in order to satisfy their infantile ideas)

[Beef Oven!]

My point is that 'Islam' is not monolithic and as such, cannot be compared to the views of one individual.

I think you'll find that 'Islam' is indeed monolithic.

[Bryn]

I think you'll find that 'Islam' is indeed monolithic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches#Schools_of_jurisprudence

[Joseph K]

I think you'll find that 'Islam' is indeed monolithic.

For a second there I thought you'd linked to something showing that Islam was indeed monolithic.

Instead it's a mere definition, as though I didn't know what 'monolithic' meant.

Disappointing.

[Beef Oven!]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami..._jurisprudence

You will say Islam is not monolithic? There's no end to the stupidity in here.

[Beef Oven!]

For a second there I thought you'd linked to something showing that Islam was indeed monolithic.

Instead it's a mere definition, as though I didn't know what 'monolithic' meant.

Disappointing.

Take a look at what Bryn's just posted, that's even more disappointing!

[Bryn]

You will say Islam is not monolithic? There's no end to the stupidity in here.

You might as well assert that all three Abrahamic/Ibrahamic religions have a single monolithic foundation, but it would serve no useful purpose.

[Beef Oven!]

You might as well assert that all three Abrahamic/Ibrahamic religions have a single monolithic foundation, but it would serve no useful purpose.

The utility of this is neither here nor there.

[Bryn]

The utility of this is neither here nor there.

Nor, for you apparently, is the standard usage of "monolithic" in relation to religions and other human groupings:

"a large, impersonal political, corporate, or social structure regarded as indivisible and slow to change."

Divisions between and within all three Abrahamic/Ibrahamic religions are legion.

[Beef Oven!]

Nor, for you apparently, is the standard usage of "monolithic" in relation to religions and other human groupings:

"a large, impersonal political, corporate, or social structure regarded as indivisible and slow to change."

Divisions between and within all three Abrahamic/Ibrahamic religions are legion.

There are divisions in absolutely everything. And Islam is regarded as theologically indivisible, at least by Muslims. The only divisions in Islam concern Jurispudence and not theology. Unlike Christianity where there are fundamental divisions of theology.

[french frank]

Coincidentally, I started reading Karen Armstrong's Islam: A Short History last night. I cannot recognise in that the religion promoted by the jihadists of Isis; nor do I think that all Muslims practise that same religion.

[Beef Oven!]

Coincidentally, I started reading Karen Armstrong's Islam: A Short History last night. I cannot recognise in that the religion promoted by the jihadists of Isis; nor do I think that all Muslims practise that same religion.

Of course. It's a religion of peace with lots of options on how you practice it.

[Serial_Apologist]

Of course. It's a religion of peace with lots of options on how you practice it.

Just like Christianity - or most religions - then.

[Beef Oven!]

Just like Christianity - or most religions - then.

Indeed, but to echo the late great Christopher Hitchens on this matter, if this discussion was taking place in the 1930s, we'd be criticising Roman Catholicism on account of its open alliance with the Third Reich and its collusion with the Holocaust. Today's religious issue is Islam.