Beethoven: In Our Time 21/12/17

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  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 30456

    #16
    Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
    "Weird" makes him sound creepy but commentators seem to agree that he was at least unconventional and that hygiene was not a priority of his, but I wouldn't make it the main point of a profile of him. He was only "old" towards the end of his life.
    Well, exactly. Not the best way to introduce children to the music. But not the only time Making Tracks showed it wasn't all that keen on classical music - just a children's show.
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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    • vinteuil
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 12936

      #17
      Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
      "Weird" makes him sound creepy but commentators seem to agree that he was at least unconventional and that hygiene was not a priority of his, but I wouldn't make it the main point of a profile of him.
      .. I cannot resist quoting Saml: Johnson on the poet Christopher Smart -

      'Concerning this unfortunate poet, Christopher Smart, who was confined in a mad-house, he had, at another time, the following conversation with Dr. Burney. — Burney : "How does poor Smart do, Sir; is he likely to recover?" Johnson: "It seems as if his mind had ceased to struggle with the disease; for he grows fat upon it." Burney: "Perhaps, Sir, that may be from want of exercise." Johnson: "No, Sir; he has partly as much exercise as he used to have, for he digs in the garden. Indeed, before his confinement, he used for exercise to walk to the alehouse; but he was carried back again. I did not think he ought to be shut up. His infirmities were not noxious to society. He insisted on people praying with him; and I'd as lief pray with Kit Smart as any one else. Another charge was, that he did not love clean linen; and I have no passion for it." '

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      • Serial_Apologist
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 37814

        #18
        Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
        .. I cannot resist quoting Saml: Johnson on the poet Christopher Smart -

        'Concerning this unfortunate poet, Christopher Smart, who was confined in a mad-house, he had, at another time, the following conversation with Dr. Burney. — Burney : "How does poor Smart do, Sir; is he likely to recover?" Johnson: "It seems as if his mind had ceased to struggle with the disease; for he grows fat upon it." Burney: "Perhaps, Sir, that may be from want of exercise." Johnson: "No, Sir; he has partly as much exercise as he used to have, for he digs in the garden. Indeed, before his confinement, he used for exercise to walk to the alehouse; but he was carried back again. I did not think he ought to be shut up. His infirmities were not noxious to society. He insisted on people praying with him; and I'd as lief pray with Kit Smart as any one else. Another charge was, that he did not love clean linen; and I have no passion for it." '


        I remember a similar quote somewhere from Alan Bush, reminiscing about Brecht - something to the effect that he (Brecht) was not over-fastidious about washing. I'll try and locate it, I have it on a cassette somewhere - might take some time.

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        • ardcarp
          Late member
          • Nov 2010
          • 11102

          #19
          and that hygiene was not a priority of his
          In fact he wasn't deaf at all. He just chucked his used undergarments inside the piano.....

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          • vinteuil
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 12936

            #20
            Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
            In fact he wasn't deaf at all. He just chucked his used undergarments inside the piano.....
            ... something we HIPPites wd do well to ponder!

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            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37814

              #21
              Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post


              I remember a similar quote somewhere from Alan Bush, reminiscing about Brecht - something to the effect that he (Brecht) was not over-fastidious about washing. I'll try and locate it, I have it on a cassette somewhere - might take some time.
              Here's the entire quote, from a BBC interview Bush gave in 1986, starting with him talking about Eisler:

              "He was a very lively personality who used to argue subjects a majority of musicians knew nothing about, or thought about. He was a very versatile personality indeed. When I was writing my second piano concerto, I went to Denmark, where he was actually living. I had tea with Brecht and Eisler every day, and we talked about politics and that sort of thing. He was, incidentally, a prize crown swimmer - a marvellous swimmer - and we used to swim in the sea every day. And one day, to everyone's astonishment, Brecht appeared in a 19th century bathing costume. He had never been known to enter any kind of sea, or indeed much water... ever. In his whole life, it was known that he was not... addicted to perpetual washing".

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              • vinteuil
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 12936

                #22


                ... many thanks for that. Good to see certain topoi prevailing over the centuries...


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                • subcontrabass
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 2780

                  #23
                  Of the three experts I see that only one is a specialist in Beethoven; the other two have most expertise in Schumann and Wagner, although John Deathridge has Beethoven as one of his sidelines (and has always been good to listen to since I first heard him as an undergraduate - he was two years senior to me at Oxford).

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                  • ardcarp
                    Late member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 11102

                    #24
                    Biog details were informative, especially for the non-specialist listener, including the influence of French political thinking. I was slightly nonplussed by Melvyn's intro...and further references....making a big thing about Beethoven's writing 'music without words'. Er? As if all preceeding Classical and Baroque composers had confined themselves to choral music?

                    Oh well, mustn't grumble. At least we got a musical topic from the IOT team.

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