Beethoven: In Our Time 21/12/17

[Belgrove]

One of the rare In Our Time programmes about music (maybe?) on Thursday.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Blimey! It's only a couple of weeks since I moaned that there hadn't been a Ludders IOT! Thanks, Melv!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09jbsjc

[DracoM]

But of course Melvyn Bragg will still be the world expert on him and boss the real experts around in his usual blunt, increasingly incoherent and unhelpful fashion.

[french frank]

But of course Melvyn Bragg will still be the world expert on him and boss the real experts around in his usual blunt, increasingly incoherent and unhelpful fashion.

Don't want to pour cold water on what may well be a very informative programme, but I gave up IOT after two programmes precisely because I thought the format awful. Subjects often absolutely fascinating, but for an hour(?) I think one expert is enough - the twofer (or threefer) slows the whole thing down; and one Melvyn was one too many for me

[Belgrove]

... but for an hour(?) ...

Forty-five minutes (or thirty for the evening repeat). The format works well I think, although Bragg’s voice has become less distinct of late. The programmes on literature, about which Bragg presumably knows the most, are the least interesting for me. The one on Wagner was, as I recall, mostly about his politics, which may well be the slant of the upcoming programme.

[gurnemanz]

The programme is usually worth a listen, but I sometimes find I have drifted away half way through. At its best for me when there is a bit of dynamic interplay between the participants. The Beethoven show will surely need some sort of "slant", as mentioned above. I've just read Jan Swafford's detailed biography, as recommended elsewhere on this forum, and I suspect he will have covered most of the possible angles.

[Bryn]

The programme is usually worth a listen, but I sometimes find I have drifted away half way through. At its best for me when there is a bit of dynamic interplay between the participants. The Beethoven show will surely need some sort of "slant", as mentioned above. I've just read Jan Swafford's detailed biography, as recommended elsewhere on this forum, and I suspect he will have covered most of the possible angles.

John E Klapproth appears to have done a pretty thorough hatchet job on that particular tome.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/057131256X/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1

[gurnemanz]

John E Klapproth appears to have done a pretty thorough hatchet job on that particular tome.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/product-rev...r&pageNumber=1

Thanks for link. I got a lot out of the book and as a non-specialist and amateur music fan it is beyond my job description to pass comment on the accuracy of the author's factual detail. There seemed to be some axe-grinding going on in that Amazon review. The bibliography does include many sources in German.

I am not uncritical:
I found the index to be deficient and for me a list of works by opus number with page references would have helped.
Having quotes from original sources in translation is for me a drawback since I do know German, but I would hardly have expected a lot of German original text in an already long book aimed at English speakers. I do have an edition of B's letters in German which I sometimes went back to get the flavour of the language. I also have several other (shorter) books in German.

I'm curious to see what Melv and friends do with him.

[Serial_Apologist]

Melvyn Bragg is someone you either admire or not, whether for his frank bluntness or not I've never figured out. To me, I'm afraid, he has always come across as the self-styling Northern working-class autodidact who thoroughly enjoys basking among the Establishment.

[french frank]

Melvyn Bragg is someone you either admire or not, whether for his frank bluntness or not I've never figured out. To me, I'm afraid, he has always come across as the self-styling Northern working-class autodidact who thoroughly enjoys basking among the Establishment.

Maybe I'm biased He was the sole celebrity contacted and asked to support FoR3 (with full context) who replied, 'I'm sorry. I enjoy Radio 3.' [The ONLY one!]

[ardcarp]

I've posted in the past about the almost total lack of musical subjects on IOT. I have written to the BBC more than once trying to make the point that some of the greatest minds (ie those of the 'great' composers) have been neglected by the programme. I doubt my letters made any difference, but getting Ludwig v B is pretty much a new venture for the programme...and like others I shall be interested to see how Melvyn deals with it. Hope they'll consider JSB at some time in the not too distant future.

[JimD]

Melvyn Bragg is someone you either admire or not, whether for his frank bluntness or not I've never figured out. To me, I'm afraid, he has always come across as the self-styling Northern working-class autodidact who thoroughly enjoys basking among the Establishment.

In what sense autodidact? Any more than we all are, whatever our formal education.

[Serial_Apologist]

In what sense autodidact? Any more than we all are, whatever our formal education.

Quite.

[french frank]

In what sense autodidact? Any more than we all are, whatever our formal education.

As we still have a couple of days to spare : I suppose what I didn't take to was the idea that I (also an autodidact when it comes to most subjects) needed Melvyn Bragg to guide me through a new topic, taking up time asking questions I didn't feel needed asking (are we sure we've got the point?). And now the programme has been reduced to 45 minutes, I feel there's even less need to have more than one specialist - who I would think quite capable of mentioning divergent views if that was important. Not unusually with the BBC the topic is fascinating, the presentation and presenter get in the way. But I did only listen twice.

But for those who do listen, yes, hurrah for a subject about classical music. If I recall, a feature on Making Tracks about LvB made him out to be a weird, slightly unhygienic old bloke …

[gurnemanz]

If I recall, a feature on Making Tracks about LvB made him out to be a weird, slightly unhygienic old bloke …

"Weird" makes him sound creepy but commentators seem to agree that he was at least unconventional and that hygiene was not a priority of his, but I wouldn't make it the main point of a profile of him. He was only "old" towards the end of his life.