Carl Friedrich Gauss - In Our Time

[ardcarp]

There was a really enjoyable episode of In Our Time today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09gbnfj

Gauss was a mathematician...and indeed polymath....who is perhaps little known outside the scientific community, even though he made and anticipated many 'discoveries' in maths and science. Today's programme was notable for the infectious enthusiasm of the 'guests', who were not derailled by Melvyn to any extent.

Two things were not (I think) mentioned. One was de-gaussing, a method invented by the Royal Navy (ironically) in WW2 to cancel out the magnetic field of metal ships so that they would go undetected by submarines.

The other was..and I may be remembering awry here...a kind of beer we drank in Gottingen on a choir tour in the 1970s. It was called 'Gaussgeist' and commemorated the great man. But I may be wrong.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It was excellent, wasn't it! One of the best programmes in the long and distinguished history of the programme. (And I was delighted by the friendly spat between the Mathematician ["He had to give up Maths and fritter his talents in Physics"] and the Physicist ["After he'd stopped wasting his energies on Mathematics and started his proper work in Physics"! )

And what an astonishing mind and individual* - I had no idea!

* = Gaus, not Melvyn.

[ardcarp]

It's about time IOT did a programme on Thomas Young, an English 18th/19th century genius who made advances in the study of light, decryptian of Egyptian hieroglyphs and musical temperaments. (He invented a tuning system which is now named after him.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Young_(scientist)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh, don't get me started, ardy! How about Beethoven???!!!

[Frances_iom]

I think the STEM based programmes work very well because Melvyn cannot dominate as much as he can with the soft + woolly subjects thus allowing experts in the hard sciences to clearly explain the key ideas by which the world has been revolutionised especially in the last couple of centuries tho there are many from much earlier ages whose ideas are worthy of detailed discussion

[teamsaint]

Is economics soft and woolly, ( being very much a matter of viewpoint, ) or hard science (being mathematics based) ?

[ardcarp]

Oh, don't get me started, ardy! How about Beethoven???!!!

Oh indeed. The programme throughout its history has only touched on music a couple of times...one being 'The Music of the Spheres'. There must be something that prevents Bragg (or the producers) from discussing the works of some of the greatest minds our world has seen, viz composers. I suspect Bragg is uncomfortable with it, though I can't see why that should matter as he wears his ignorance of science and big numbers like a badge of honour. Also, he has I think in the past 'fronted' some TV arts broadcasts involving music. It seems very odd to me, and I have written to the programme in the past about it...clearly to no effect!

[Quarky]

There was a really enjoyable episode of In Our Time today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09gbnfj

Gauss was a mathematician...and indeed polymath....who is perhaps little known outside the scientific community, even though he made and anticipated many 'discoveries' in maths and science. Today's programme was notable for the infectious enthusiasm of the 'guests', who were not derailled by Melvyn to any extent.

Two things were not (I think) mentioned. One was de-gaussing, a method invented by the Royal Navy (ironically) in WW2 to cancel out the magnetic field of metal ships so that they would go undetected by submarines.

The other was..and I may be remembering awry here...a kind of beer we drank in Gottingen on a choir tour in the 1970s. It was called 'Gaussgeist' and commemorated the great man. But I may be wrong.

Yes indeed. I have the greatest admiration for Herr Gauss, but having spent my entire life in the electronics and scientific sphere, my impression of his contributions was widely different from that of the very high level experts in the programme.

The single outstanding development in my view, which is part of the every day life of engineers and scientists, is the Gaussian probability distribution, a bell-shaped curve. This accurately defines an electrical signal transmitted at a single frequency, among other uses, and is a basic building block of electronics. No specific mention of this. Far more important than his work in telegraphy, which was soon superseded by more reliable solutions.

And who wants to know how to construct a 17 sided polygon? Not me, for one.

[Frances_iom]

Is economics soft and woolly, ( being very much a matter of viewpoint, ) or hard science (being mathematics based) ?

The mathematical modelling of theoretical economic models is very definite hard science - however the relevance to some of these models to human interactions + markets is I suspect woolly in the extreme.

[ardcarp]

And who wants to know how to construct a 17 sided polygon? Not me, for one.

...but that's not the point. He proved you could do that particular figure with a ruler and compasses only, and proved that (apart from the obvious ones) you couldn't do others. I think. Anyway his genius focused on mathematical thought, not application.

[Quarky]

...but that's not the point. He proved you could do that particular figure with a ruler and compasses only, and proved that (apart from the obvious ones) you couldn't do others. I think. Anyway his genius focused on mathematical thought, not application.

Of course it's not the point . Just joking, old man.

[teamsaint]

The mathematical modelling of theoretical economic models is very definite hard science - however the relevance to some of these models to human interactions + markets is I suspect woolly in the extreme.

And that's the point isn't it? Splitting things unnecessarily into "hard science" and " soft and woolly" , even though there might be a clear line between the two,can be potentially misleading and dangerous. There was some interesting discussion during the referendum about how few macro economic experts there actually are in the UK, because Economics is a very wide field, where areas away from macroeconomic forecasting are actually more profitable for universities and careers. Macroeconomic theory is based in some very rigorous mathematics, but it really can't be relied upon to do more than guide us about what things might be a really bad idea, such as policies that might cause unnecessary supply side restrictions, for example. The business of how an economy is developed to maximise benefit for citizens , which is supposed to be the point of it all, isn't hard science, but it really isn't soft and woolly either. Really rather tough , actually.

And the same might be said about things like drugs licensing, ( and prescribing of multiple drugs to individuals), or the application of technology to our day to day lives, where the evidence base, whilst vital, can be used, misused , or be only a part of much wider discussion. Just pick your area of interest.

( And the same might be said for music, looking at the split between the " hard " area of theory and wider understanding, interpretation, appreciation.)

[DracoM]

What I loved was the cheery way they all brushed Bragg aside as if he was an irritating fly.

[gradus]

There was a really enjoyable episode of In Our Time today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09gbnfj

...One was de-gaussing, a method invented by the Royal Navy (ironically) in WW2 to cancel out the magnetic field of metal ships so that they would go undetected by submarines...

Not just ships' hulls for those of us that used reel to reel.

[Bryn]

Not just ships' hulls for those of us that used reel to reel.

Or indeed cassette recorders.