What is productivity anyway?

[teamsaint]

Some discussion about productivity in this long book extract, from the Guardian. Its a really interesting article/ extract, discussing Britain’s huge finance sector in ways I hadn’t read about before.
And it certainly suggests reasons for , and points the way towards possible solutions for the UKs productivity mystery.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/oct/05/the-finance-curse-how-the-outsized-power-of-the-city-of-london-makes-britain-poorer

[Serial_Apologist]

Some discussion about productivity in this long book extract, from the Guardian. Its a really interesting article/ extract, discussing Britain’s huge finance sector in ways I hadn’t read about before.
And it certainly suggests reasons for , and points the way towards possible solutions for the UKs productivity mystery.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...britain-poorer

I shall enjoy reading that tomorrow afternoon, when the rain keeps me in at last. Thanks for posting it, teamsaint.

[Lat-Literal]

This is not my area.

I don't understand it.

That might be a great starting place for comment.

I doubt the people of the 19th Century discussed productivity much. Many of them just did. In planning environment terms, this was not good. Nor was it in terms of human rights. In other respects, it was to the good. That absence of analysis because analysis hadn't been invented yet. The positive drive based on instinct. This country says it doesn't have sufficient skills inside its boundaries. It is educating more Chinese people today at Britain's universities than it educated British people at universities in 1982. That is one quarter of the university population. Another quarter still comprises EU citizens. A third quarter of the quadrupling is British. It is based on Blair's decision to get more British people, paying, into universities.

And yet...productivity isn't good enough. It is argued by many that we need more and more people in, directly for high skilled employment. When exactly is the education sector - and with it the Government - going to be held to account? It is quite clear that it has failed on every level while raking huge amounts of money in business style. As a humble voter, I'd like answers. Where does the constant flow of Beijing people go? Straight back to Beijing and if so why? All that I - Joe Public - can see is an economics of the madhouse. Brexit - which could make the situation worse - or no Brexit which has already made the situation worse. Who cares? No one has a plan or sense or logic or strategy. Everyone must be on hard drugs.

Let's be clear about this, If these Chinese students are here - and they are to the extent of changing the entire aura of a York and a Durham and I bet you that most of them are productive so, ok, best to accept it - then given this change can't we keep them here and reduce in other ways immigration not to tens of thousands but virtually nil? If not, why not? For the sake of our environment, I'm tempted to contact Farage on this point - why is it that a substantial student immigration leaves and isn't leading to an upturn in this country? It's just an inhuman flow for academic capitalist enterprise, it seems to me - they are pawns, the local citizens feel anxious, and it may well all be sent away to avoid tax in the Caymans.

[Cockney Sparrow]

State schools are focused on getting results in Maths and English, ditching arts subjects along the way (with expressions of regret because that is how they are judged and senior staff (headteachers, etc) jobs depend on them. The progress of every child is monitored (something like weekly at Primary level). Short of sprinkling magic dust I'm not sure primary teachers can get their pupils to achieve more. I wouldn't think there are many places where low expectations consign children to low achievement where their innate abilities are greater.

Secondary schools, it seems to me, is more difficult - management of learning in a more systematic and business like way - hence excluding low achievers to massage those all important statistics.

A lot of a child's achievement must surely be determined by innate genetic based capability (see interview on Newsnight, BBC2 Thurs 4th October) and then the influence of parents and the home environment. A large section of the population have home backgrounds which are limited and do not add much to the efforts of the schools. How much can schools and spending effect in the achievement of their children to change the course determined before the child enters their premises? And yet does not research show the chances and outcomes are determined more in the early and very early stages in the life of a child.

All the above may well be missing your point which seems to refer to universities. Without Chinese and far east students our universities would be in trouble - they are businesses now - to sustain their size, they need those numbers from outside the UK. But surely primary and secondary schools must account for the largest part of government spending, given that university education is now largely funded by the students - fees and loans.

[french frank]

Some discussion about productivity in this long book extract, from the Guardian. Its a really interesting article/ extract, discussing Britain’s huge finance sector in ways I hadn’t read about before.
And it certainly suggests reasons for , and points the way towards possible solutions for the UKs productivity mystery.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...britain-poorer

I'm an economic simpleton. That's why I couldn't understand why our wealthy country [allegedly] had such pockets of poverty; why even a 'wealthy city' like Bristol has just closed down all its public toilets to save money, and the libraries are next on the negotiating list. Why is there such a huge hole in the city's budget, and getting bigger each year? This sentence resonated:

"A century or more ago, 80% of bank lending went to businesses for genuine investment. Now, less than 4% of financial institutions’ business lending goes to manufacturing – instead, financial institutions are lending mostly to each other, and into housing and commercial real estate."

[teamsaint]

I'm an economic simpleton. That's why I couldn't understand why our wealthy country [allegedly] had such pockets of poverty; why even a 'wealthy city' like Bristol has just closed down all its public toilets to save money, and the libraries are next on the negotiating list. Why is there such a huge hole in the city's budget, and getting bigger each year? This sentence resonated:

"A century or more ago, 80% of bank lending went to businesses for genuine investment. Now, less than 4% of financial institutions’ business lending goes to manufacturing – instead, financial institutions are lending mostly to each other, and into housing and commercial real estate."

I think we can often see the effects close to home, if we look,and have the right guidance in how to look.

Our business was sold by our venture capitalist owners to a management buyout team 18 months ago. We are now able to run the business in ways that the owners, all experienced in the industry, feel will take us forward, where previously we tended to do things that we thought would make the VCs happy.

The thing about toilets in Bristol and such like is just a narrative. This country can afford such things.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I'm an economic simpleton. That's why I couldn't understand why our wealthy country [allegedly] had such pockets of poverty; why even a 'wealthy city' like Bristol has just closed down all its public toilets to save money, and the libraries are next on the negotiating list. Why is there such a huge hole in the city's budget, and getting bigger each year?

Because, under the heading of Austerity, the last two governments have taken/are progressively taking away the block grant financing of Local Authorities - generously giving them their business rates as income. A feature of many of the actions of the same government is the offloading of more of the problematic service delivery needs onto those authorities - so that ministers are not responsible and are therefore not put up to be held to account. Social care anyone? - we'll be waiting some time more before central government steps up to be answerable for that one. The looming funding gap means there is a graph for an awful lot of authorities where in "X" years, there will only be resources for statutory services - and some of those will be rationed.

As electors of MPs we need to be a lot more aware of this insidious development - there is little local democracy - but straightjacketing of local authorities. Notice that when it becomes controversial enough, Ministers announce £xxx million over the next "enter convenient number of years" for the purpose of addressing this problem, ring fenced for the purpose.

7 October -Just found this - https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...eres-the-truth

[french frank]

The thing about toilets in Bristol and such like is just a narrative. This country can afford such things.

No doubt that 'the country' can afford them. But the main reason why councils are struggling, even becoming insolvent, is because their grants have been slashed - government 'austerity cuts'. After all, it isn't just local councils (Bristol attempted to cut £5m from their Special Education Needs and Disabilities budget and found it was illegal); there are the prisons, the police &c &c


Just seen CS's post

[Dave2002]

I'm an economic simpleton. That's why I couldn't understand why our wealthy country [allegedly] had such pockets of poverty; why even a 'wealthy city' like Bristol has just closed down all its public toilets to save money, and the libraries are next on the negotiating list.

I think they need to get their act cleaned up! I shudder to think of the consequences if this is real and not fake news.

[Serial_Apologist]

I think they need to get their act cleaned up! I shudder to think of the consequences if this is real and not fake news.

In many places they're now depending on pubs and restaurants - the former in particular - to provide those "social necessities". Always embarrassing when you enter and the bar person and clientele look round and you ask "Mind if I use your premises to offload a couple of pints?"

[Serial_Apologist]

This is not my area.

I don't understand it.

Human unit of production, together with tool, making a given quantity of product over a given span of working time, = productivity, basically. Historically it might have meant workers and their chisels being able to carve chair legs faster than others in a competitor company, but this has of course been long superseded by the machine being the determining element when it comes to productivity, so that after hundreds of years of technological upgradings the more efficient a company is, by employing less human labour for the same amount of production, the more profitable its prices. So, at the end of the day - before we speak of turnover, which can't be separated out - rather than how much physical effort workers put in, as long of course as it is some, it all comes down to how much of the after-tax profits are invested in more productive machinery to ensure the company's competitiveness and therefore survival. Under-investment has historically been British industry's problem - a legacy of this country's hegemonic position when it ran the world's biggest empire - as is shown by the countries where workers enjoy shorter working hours and more statutory holidays than here.

Workers in the "mental" trades (e.g. accountancy, banks) are of course often found to be more "productive" when working shorter hours with longer meal breaks.

[Dave2002]

In many places they're now depending on pubs and restaurants - the former in particular - to provide those "social necessities". Always embarrassing when you enter and the bar person and clientele look round and you ask "Mind if I use your premises to offload a couple of pints?"

Where do you find a pub these days when you want/need one? So many have now been demolished for housing.