Community is Just a Highbrow Fantasy

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  • Lat-Literal
    Guest
    • Aug 2015
    • 6983

    Community is Just a Highbrow Fantasy

    I

    So I took myself off for one pint only to the local pub and this time things would be different. Rather than dropping off in similar places sporadically on lone walks, today it was specific. One local. One learning. Instead of wondering what other people thought about me, the entire environment would be subjected to my test. It is hard to underestimate the changes here. Not only the brain feels different. The head does - and physically. Pressures back and forth. Troubling. My observations drew on what has been increasingly in me for some time, ie you might get a smile and something that resembles humanity from someone who has got something to sell you. Clearly in this case it was the barman although what I am outlining is a pen picture of society in 2017. Then I sat there alone. No worries. Absolutely no emotion. I expected it, noting that my parents and some others of their generation view the world as one big happy family. That is, unless they sense people are about to turn nasty at which point they leave and block it out like it has never happened. Just as they did when young with Hitler.

    But Hitler was the enemy and everyone here.....we were all in it together. That is, those of us born prior to 1945. The sentiment extends even to this day in open chat with people who are declared friends on buses and familial relations with neighbours. I'm sorry but I just don't get it. I'm no longer susceptible to the urge to view most people as ok. Yeah, they are ok and so what? So what isn't what I want to feel but what the rest of life is telling me to feel. It hardly matters if they are ok when they don't engage at all. Community is a false concept only believed in by local Tories and socialist pseud-gods. No one came over. I didn't go over to them. Worse, my instinct was that it would all have been so anodyne if one or the other had occurred. Depressing without the awkwardness of "what do you do?" "Not a lot". "Bye". It increasingly bewilders me. This thing that people are now. Fairly ok-ish and separate.

    II

    For years, music events blissfully blinded one and drowned out the lack of harmony. Sports events do. I am quite at ease in the middle of a crowd who are taking knives to each other, literally, because the goal posts are clear. I don't like it and will get out but not with undue alarm. In the everyday, the rules are less easy to accept. Only when one accepts them is there any confidence. Knowing how they feel and how I feel. At least we know the position. Neither gangland nor Commonwealth. Perhaps it would be different around a pub quiz. Some common identification. Perhaps it wouldn't be. Everyone so insular as to be anything other than objective re who they don't know. Me included. Whichever way, I don't rate it. They all seem so routine which suggests a sense of superiority but that is the last thing I feel. However much warm effort I would put into it - and it would be five times as much as many - there would still be a sense of hollow alienation and I don't think that is my fault. I am happier to get onto this forum which has sieved out community to a hundred people across a nation.

    III

    To be with a friend - that blocks out these issues. During the extremely brief moments when I had a girlfriend, it wasn't she who made all the difference. It was the way in which one was viewed and hence viewed the world when with her. One cannot emphasize enough how different it all seemed. Planets. Athalie - big spender - she went off on one of her more manageable ones and wanted to buy a sari in Croydon. Never bought it, astonishingly, but the shop staff were a revelation. You see, I was "the other half". Human beyond anything I had ever known from those who are simply service providers. But here we are today. The woman next door - she's ok - but all of the hyped up hysterical joie de vivre heaving through my living room walls - genuine - is that of her with my parents and it is on each side. Good for them. I'm happy. Less happy when I am told for the umpteenth time that it's all a problem with my outlook when I know it isn't and I get a frozen civility at best when bumping into her on occasions. One doctor was right. They don't understand you. No, weirdly for someone so insular in the past I find the main issue is that it is others who just don't see. And, of course, crucially here I am a single bloke. Look at other single blokes - possibly with the emphasis on the word bloke - and you will find very much the same. Do we believe any longer in the way professionals slice it? Do us a favour! It is as antagonising as it could be.

    IV

    After that point, I headed round to the fish and chip. Didn't like it last time. Knew I would think no better of it this time around. Bear in mind that everything I say here is somewhat forced beyond an emphasis from very young to mingle, to think positively about other people, to have a strong sense of, yes, community. Boy. did I do it against the odds and often it inadvertently led to good things for me but it was I feel now even in the 1980s long out of its time. In the seated area outside, I watched the kids on the playground. I watched the young Mums and Dads getting in and out of cars. How the hell do they get their money? I watched the grannies, not so very old. Closer to me in age than the age of my parents who having got where they are must be beautiful freaks. Most of these people appear less than beautiful. They have an eye for the money and sex. Divorces from generation to generation.

    Not everyone will be at fault there but some people must be. And the children of these parents and grandparents appear happy enough in themselves although time will really tell. Few are as financially impoverished as might be implied although many have a resemblance to poor kids in younger days. Many are, though, troubled by emotional break-ups and the interactions between them in later life will especially reveal it. Worse, if they become professional service providers, their service provision to you and me will be framed in the only contexts they ever knew. I find that very scary actually. In fact, what scares me the most is that we long term single blokes are probably now the ones with the greatest sensitivity.

    V

    My inclination today is to blame past culture. With hindsight, the seventies of run down housing estates were not quite how they seemed. While it could all be romanticized from a distance artistically and historically, community for many had already acquired negative connotations. That was why in their heads people moved on to something different. It is only the rushing around that prevents them from knowing it has been replaced by nothing. It is, though, in their attitudes and faces. That thing about couples. On reflection, it can be overstated. Certainly the clarity there enables those who are selling to be more engaging and it makes life more comfortable for the general public who like shorthand labels and have chosen not to reach out beyond their immediate domain. But the greater point may be that the majority of us have not had the benefits of being in a war. When the key areas of conflict in peace time are the systemic nature of competitive business and fraught domestic relationships, why would anyone naturally consider connectivity with unknown individuals in the wider whole?
    Last edited by Lat-Literal; 09-09-17, 07:40.
  • cloughie
    Full Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 22072

    #2
    L
    Originally posted by Lat-Literal View Post
    So I took myself off for one pint only to the local pub and this time things would be different. Rather than dropping off in similar places sporadically on lone walks this time it was specific. One local. One learning. Instead of wondering what other people thought about me, the entire environment would be subjected to my test. It is hard to underestimate the changes here. Not only the brain feels different. The head does - and physically. My observations drew on what has been increasingly in me for some time. You might get a smile and something that resembles humanity of someone has got something to sell you. Clearly in this case it was the barman although what I am outlining is a pen picture of society in 2017.

    I sat there alone. I expected it, noting that my parengts and some others of their generation view the world as one big happy family. That is, unless they sense that people are about to turn nasty at which point they leave and block it all out like it has never happened. Just as they did when younger with Hitler. But, of course, Hitler was the enemy and everyone here.....we were all in it together. The sentiment extends even to this day in open chat on buses and almost familial relations with neighbours. I'm sorry but I just don't get it. I'm no longer susceptible to the urge to view most people as ok. Yeah, they are ok and so what? It hardly matters when they don't engage at all. No one came over. I didn't go over to them. Worse, my instinct was that it would all have been so anodyne if one or the other had occurred. Depressing without the awkwardness of what do you do. Not a lot in truth.

    It increasingly bewilders me. There is more confidence with it. That feeling of knowing how they feel and how I feel. At least we know the position. Perhaps it would be different around a pub quiz. Some common identification. Perhaps there wouldn't be. Everyone so insular as to be anything other than objective re who they don't know. Me included. I really don't rate it. Thy all seem so routine which suggests a sense of superiority on my part but that is the very last thing I feel. However much effort I would put into it - and I now realise that would be five times as much as many - there would still be a sense of hollow alienation and I really don't think that is my fault.

    To be with a friend - that blocks out these issues. During the extremely brief moments that I had a girlfriend, it wasn't she who made all the difference. It was the way in which one was viewed and hence viewed the world. Athalie - she went off on her more manageable ones and wanted to buy a sari in Croydon. Never bought it, astonishingly, but the shop staff were a revelation. You see, I was the supposed other half. Human beyond anything I had never known from those who are simply service providers. The woman next door - she's ok - but all of the hyped up hysterical joie de vivre through my living room walls - genuine is that if her with my parents and it is on each side. It's all a problem with my outlook apparently except I know it isn't and I get a frozen civility at best when bumping into her on occasions. One doctor was right. They don't understand you. No, weirdly for someone so insular in the past I find that the main issue is that it is others who just don't see.

    After that point, I headed round to the fish and chip. Didn't like it last time. Knew I would think no better of it this time around. Bear in mind that everything I say here is somewhat forced beyond an emphasis from very young to mingle, to think positively about other people, to have a strong sense of community. Boy. did I do it against the odds and often it inadvertently led to good things for me but it was I feel now even in the 1980s long out of its time. In the seated area outside, I watched the kids on the playground. I watched the young Mums and Dads getting in and out of cars. How the hell do they get their money? I watched the grannies, not so very old. Closer to me in age than the age of my parents who having got where they are must be beautiful freaks. Most of these people appear less than beautiful. They have an eye for the money and sex. Divorces aplenty from generation to generation. Not everyone will be at fault but some people must be.

    And the children of these parents and grandparents appear happy enough in themselves although time will really tell there. Few are as financially impoverished as many have a resemblance to those in younger days but they are troubled by emotional break-ups and the interactions between them in later life will especially reveal it. Worse, if they become professional service providers, their service provision to you and me will be framed in the only contexts they ever knew. I find that very scary actually. If I thought a Corbyn could transform it all, I would vote for him. But I don't nor do I think that any of his opponents would. They just feather their own nests while screwing everything up and claiming to be our saviours. If I believe that as a politics graduate, full societal breakdown must surely be very near now.
    lat, looks like you going for the Guinness Book for the number of threads started and running on these boards!

    Comment

    • Lat-Literal
      Guest
      • Aug 2015
      • 6983

      #3
      You beat me to the ending.

      Impressions are interesting - I think it is about a dozen threads from me since March.

      I am mainly a contributor.

      French frank could confirm.

      Anyhow, the sooner there is a ban on central heating, the better it will be for the nation as a whole.

      I genuinely believe that - and I am also sure that my wish will come true.

      This is an absolute - and genuine - manifesto for a return to 1968.
      Last edited by Lat-Literal; 09-09-17, 07:14.

      Comment

      • eighthobstruction
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 6402

        #4
        ....there's a craze going on in our village( and others apparently) of painting pebbles with colourful designs and patterns and placing them in parks, woods paths nearby for children to find and photograph/Facebook/Twitter etc....it gets the kids out in the fresh air and nature, improves their observation etc etc....it's not exactly community but.... (proper full stop, new sentence) 1000 times a day I end up thinking - "well, thats just people isn't it" - it's just people passing by disturbing molecules Ntttt....better have a cup of tea.

        I am taking what you say seriously LitLat....I would be unable to answer your above post BUT felt like replying - something....
        bong ching

        Comment

        • Dave2002
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 17970

          #5
          Originally posted by Lat-Literal View Post
          This is an absolute - and genuine - manifesto for a return to 1968.
          That wasn't one of my favourite years - along with a whole bunch of others.

          A subject for another thread perhaps - favourite years and non favourite years.

          Comment

          • vinteuil
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 12687

            #6
            .


            ... and what's wrong with 'highbrow' ennyway??


            .

            Comment

            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37359

              #7
              Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
              .


              ... and what's wrong with 'highbrow' ennyway??


              .
              They've certainly come back into fashion, haven't they? I remember when young and not so young women shaved theirs off and substituted a thin pencil line, frequently not where the removed brows were, usually in black marker pen - which I always thought to be acts of defacement of the worst kind. Nowadays they appear to wear stick-ons, the equivalent of false eyelashes, or "falsies" - to be natural, surely, they can't be that perfect... or plentiful in the hair density department??

              Comment

              • vinteuil
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 12687

                #8
                Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                They've certainly come back into fashion, haven't they?

                ... good eyebrows, aren't they?





                (I like a good eyebrow.)


                But not pertick'ly highbrow ...


                .
                Last edited by vinteuil; 07-09-17, 18:25.

                Comment

                • Serial_Apologist
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 37359

                  #10
                  Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
                  ....there's a craze going on in our village( and others apparently) of painting pebbles with colourful designs and patterns and placing them in parks, woods paths nearby for children to find and photograph/Facebook/Twitter etc....it gets the kids out in the fresh air and nature, improves their observation etc etc....it's not exactly community but.... (proper full stop, new sentence) 1000 times a day I end up thinking - "well, thats just people isn't it" - it's just people passing by disturbing molecules Ntttt....better have a cup of tea.

                  I am taking what you say seriously LitLat....I would be unable to answer your above post BUT felt like replying - something....
                  Interpersonal walls - social constructs with physical consequences. If we were allowed to live more ***authentically*** we wouldn't need enclaves, mental or physical. People step in in emergency situations then retreat into their personal nuclear bunkers. Meanwhile the luxury of time and space to ponder and renew shrinks before the god of confected scarcity. The blameworthy is depersonalised and at systemic market-dictating levels. As Hans Arp said, whoever invented the phrase "time is money" deserved to be horsewhipped - a society based on such things has little more to learn about devaluation. Being less abstractly accessible, the nearest to hand is and are easier to scapegoat. Defensive habits will of course die hard - it might take a bit of getting used to, involve different, less proscriptive protocols, the kind of thing some of us encourage on this forum...

                  Comment

                  • Serial_Apologist
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 37359

                    #11
                    Frida Kahlo made friends with people who believed in joined-up thinking.

                    Comment

                    • eighthobstruction
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 6402

                      #12
                      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                      Interpersonal walls - social constructs with physical consequences. If we were allowed to live more ***authentically*** we wouldn't need enclaves, mental or physical. People step in in emergency situations then retreat into their personal nuclear bunkers. Meanwhile the luxury of time and space to ponder and renew shrinks before the god of confected scarcity. The blameworthy is depersonalised and at systemic market-dictating levels. As Hans Arp said, whoever invented the phrase "time is money" deserved to be horsewhipped - a society based on such things has little more to learn about devaluation. Being less abstractly accessible, the nearest to hand is and are easier to scapegoat. Defensive habits will of course die hard - it might take a bit of getting used to, involve different, less proscriptive protocols, the kind of thing some of us encourage on this forum...
                      ....Weeeelllll, it's an awful lot of trouble being eyebrow isn't it....lot of pushing a lot of thoughts around....while a great deal of you is bacteria and microbes with their own crosses to bear (no doubt)....that's what needed "no doubt", faith in yourself, even if unfortunately it's belief that yer a duffer.... I just say if I may, I'd generally give myself the description of "capricious" at best, eyebrow wise I'm pretty proud of the mobility of mine, especially in my well practised - looking to heaven rolling of eyes and eyebrows....Ah the banal things just rule sometimes....they sing....pluck something profrowned....

                      ....sometimes the only thing handy is a Ginsters Cornish Pasty....
                      bong ching

                      Comment

                      • cloughie
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 22072

                        #13
                        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                        They've certainly come back into fashion, haven't they? I remember when young and not so young women shaved theirs off and substituted a thin pencil line, frequently not where the removed brows were, usually in black marker pen - which I always thought to be acts of defacement of the worst kind. Nowadays they appear to wear stick-ons, the equivalent of false eyelashes, or "falsies" - to be natural, surely, they can't be that perfect... or plentiful in the hair density department??

                        Denis Healey's were quite famous!

                        Comment

                        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                          Gone fishin'
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 30163

                          #14
                          Originally posted by cloughie View Post
                          Denis Healey's were quite famous!
                          This is what I most deplore about my own baldness - the fact that hair growth continues prolifically; it's just that it doesn't reach the top flight of stairs any more. Ears, nostrils, eyebrows - making up for the failure for the final assault on Everest, for some evolutionary reason that it's keeping to itself. Without regular trimming, my eyebrows start pushing my glasses off my nose.
                          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                          Comment

                          • Flay
                            Full Member
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 5792

                            #15
                            Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                            Without regular trimming, my eyebrows start pushing my glasses off my nose.
                            It's another milestone of life when for the first time the hairdresser asks: "Would you like me to trim the eyebrows sir?"

                            Lats, community is alive and kicking. It's a simple "good morning" and a smile, it's borrowing a neighbour's hedge trimmer, it's giving a hand, doing a favour, chatting, picking up that crisp packet in the street. It is giving and receiving, and being. It takes effort. From this community emerges. If you cannot find community then you are looking in the wrong places.

                            There are plenty of examples of community - good and bad - in the world today.

                            Please lighten up (and consider the art of précis )
                            Pacta sunt servanda !!!

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