Is recycling worthwhile?

[french frank]

Those are exactly what can be taken to our Household Waste Recycling Centres (including hazardous waste).Two in the city are run by the city council and there are a couple nearby run by S. Glos. I would arrange with any tradesman that he took away his waste - there are also centres for commercial firms. They have to pay, but I assume they add it to the price of the job. You may be paying, but at least it goes. Otherwise, there are firms that will collect and dispose of it - you just have to pay.

Not actually "recycling" - but disposal ... why is it that trade waste is such a pain? Many tradesmen nowadays refuse to take away their waste, and some of it can't easily be disposed of. No wonder there are problems with fly tipping.

Currently I have plastic bath and a shower screen to dispose of. I have started by trying to saw the bath into bits - it would eventually go - but would take a while, and then I'd have to find a dump to take it - which probably wouldn't be too difficult.

Other things which are difficult to dispose of - tins which still contain chemicals and liquids - such as paint. These are likely to be refused at many dumps. I suspect many householders will find their own solutions.

[Lat-Literal]

Those are exactly what can be taken to our Household Waste Recycling Centres (including hazardous waste).Two in the city are run by the city council and there are a couple nearby run by S. Glos. I would arrange with any tradesman that he took away his waste - there are also centres for commercial firms. They have to pay, but I assume they add it to the price of the job. You may be paying, but at least it goes. Otherwise, there are firms that will collect and dispose of it - you just have to pay.

I have used tins of paint here that can't go anywhere.

I can't carry them onto a bus and we are not allowed to walk into the council dump as pedestrians for health and safety reasons.

The only means is to go via a polluting car and I don't have anyone who has one and who would take me.

I don't see why I should have to pay for a private company to take them away when I pay taxes and don't even get the services I've paid for.

The very last person on earth who would ever consider fly tipping me was me.

It would have been unthinkable.

But the council seems hellbent in creating such an identity in me.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

[french frank]

I'm not in such a different position from you, Lat. I don't have a car and the main tip isn't on a bus route anyway. But I do know people who have cars and who do go to the tip. Two have offered to take anything for me 'when they're going to the tip'. If I were that worried I would pin them down to 'when are you likely to be going? Could you take …, please?

[Lat-Literal]

I'm not in such a different position from you, Lat. I don't have a car and the main tip isn't on a bus route anyway. But I do know people who have cars and who do go to the tip. Two have offered to take anything for me 'when they're going to the tip'. If I were that worried I would pin them down to 'when are you likely to be going? Could you take …, please?

Thank you. That's kind. I don't know if I do know anyone other than my next door neighbour and she struggles although has help. I am very backward in coming forward in that way. I suppose there is one friend at a distance. He took the old dustbin away for me on Saturday. I didn't ask but he insisted. It was helpful although the standard refuse wasn't collected in one of the new wheelie bins on Mon because it is not to be used until 20 August. Everything feels like a trap. When I think of two even more geographically distant friends, neither has a car. Anyhow, the only time we would ever meet is on a holiday and that is extremely rare. My father has a car sitting in his garage because it has failed the MOT. It would cost £500 to repair and the car itself isn't worth that much. He's also awaiting results of an MRI scan which will almost certainly rule him out of driving. I thought about buying a car and trying to drive it locally for my parents. It would cost a lot to have me as the only driver as I haven't driven since the mid 1990s.

But neither of them is agreeing to it. They spend all their time telling me that I can't do anything calmly without understanding how a huge amount of that attitude in eight years has reinforced helplessness though not necessarily when in their company. It is all very distressing. They have taken to walking over steep hills again and refuse to take taxis unless I am with them and they can say that it is because I need taxis and they don't. They are indifferent to the anxieties it causes in me. What with the breaking down of our relationships which have survived most of these years as a barrier between me and others who I am supposed to see, in their view, positively but are clearly dangerous and mad, I'm not sure what to do anymore. The Council's position on recycling is a case in point. Just as everything is collapsing around my ears - including me - so-called society comes in yet again : it has at various times in my life attacked my body and my livelihood and now it is my property - to shove me further into the ground.

There is a general malaise setting in here now. The recycling people don't realise it, of course. But increasingly, I am finding I am only identifying with words and ideas. As soon as I see people or hear people, I'm acutely aware of the differences in personas. Too old, too young, too middle aged, too middle class, too working class, too workmanlike or too laid back. I haven't felt like this before and it can feel unnervingly icy. It is like I'm only feeling right when floating in a netherworld. I say "I went canoeing" or "I went gliding" as I did last year and they say "oh that's nice, why don't you do it some more", then they tell me that their ceiling is caving in, literally, or they have fallen or that I wouldn't have the capability to care for a dog and I'm thinking "well, that's partially why". Along with the fact that in all of these activities - concerts at the church, Shakespeare at the pub, walks, all the things I've done - I related to the event but no one wants to enter into talk with a single man who they don't know - and how I have tried on that one - and even if they did we would be worlds apart. Then I send something full of effort and logic to the Council to help them to help me out of their mess and it is just ignored.

Anyway, you might like this as I did when it was broadcast this morning in the early hours.

The always worth listening to Vernon Bogdanor on the party system.

The academic approach suits me better these days than cold reality:

BBC Parliament - Vernon Bogdanor delivers a Gresham College lecture in the Museum of London on the British party system, 15 May 2018:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0b3tnfb/briefings-vernon-bogdanor-on-the-british-party-system

[oddoneout]

I've long felt that if people were given the facts, and programmes in which alternatives to our present ways of doing things were allowed to be fully aired rather than discussion-curtailed, then the next day people would be bursting with things they wanted to say - in their homes, to strangers on the way to work ("Hey, did you see that amazing programme last night?"), in the work breaks, down the pub.

I believe that David Attenborough's Blue Planet documentaries fall into that category? Got everyone talking and so many wanting to do something and not unreasonably expecting a response from those charged with 'leading' the country. What did we get? A proposed ban on plastic stem cotton buds and straws. Well gee whiz that's going to save the world's oceans.
The paint issue is a good example of the way that lack of joined-up thinking(for whatever reason) not only hampers sensible waste reduction but may increase environmental damage. There are schemes which take unwanted paint and distribute it to those in need, such as community facilities and families with housing problems. The new all singing all dancing disposal site in town used to provide a collection point for such donations, but then stopped with no explanation. We are supposed to wait for one of the annual hazardous waste amnesty days at the town site. No guesses as to what happens in practice....

[Dave2002]

Otherwise, there are firms that will collect and dispose of it - you just have to pay.

Some “firms” are fly tippers and under changes to legislation the person whose rubbish is dumped is also liable for penalties.

[french frank]

Some “firms” are fly tippers and under changes to legislation the person whose rubbish is dumped is also liable for penalties.

So they may be. Legitimate waste collection firms have to be licensed. It shouldn't be too hard to find one.

[oddoneout]

Not actually "recycling" - but disposal ... why is it that trade waste is such a pain? Many tradesmen nowadays refuse to take away their waste, and some of it can't easily be disposed of. No wonder there are problems with fly tipping.

Currently I have plastic bath and a shower screen to dispose of. I have started by trying to saw the bath into bits - it would eventually go - but would take a while, and then I'd have to find a dump to take it - which probably wouldn't be too difficult.

Other things which are difficult to dispose of - tins which still contain chemicals and liquids - such as paint. These are likely to be refused at many dumps. I suspect many householders will find their own solutions.

Trade waste is a problem for tradesmen as well as householders. They need a license to carry the waste to an approved site, where the disposal costs may be high in relation to the amount to be disposed of and the value of the job generating the waste. If they take it and flytip it and it can be traced back to the householder then s/he is the one who'll pay the fine.

[Lat-Literal]

Some “firms” are fly tippers and under changes to legislation the person whose rubbish is dumped is also liable for penalties.

Fascinating.

If the rubbish was that of local authorities, who would lead the prosecution to ensure they were also penalised?

[Serial_Apologist]

Some “firms” are fly tippers and under changes to legislation the person whose rubbish is dumped is also liable for penalties.

I very nearly got lumbered with this problem a year and a half ago, when two Eastern European men turned up in a van and neatly piled parts of wardrobe units up against our wall and dumped several box loads of miscellaneous rubbish, saying the council had been contacted and would be taking it away shortly. At the time I assumed they must be acting on behalf of one of the other flat holders here. After a week , rifling though the rubbish I found envelopes with a name and address not six miles from here, and so, on New Year's morning, yes, I cycled there, not without considerable trepidation for the reception I could have been in for! The lady of the house answered the door, and fetched her husband, and the latter was extremely apologetic - this must have been in response to my happy new year manner! - telling me that he had contacted the "disposal firm" via an ad in the paper, and had paid them £100 to dispose of the items described. He then promised to get them taken away the day after next; we exchanged phone numbers, and he actually turned up himself, as promised. After loading the items onto a lorry he'd hired, he again apologised profusely, then handed me a bottle of what turned out to be quality Greek wine, "for my troubles". So, there are, it would seem, still decent people in this world, contrary to impressions, reinforced by a lot of hearsay!

[cloughie]

I very nearly got lumbered with this problem a year and a half ago, when two Eastern European men turned up in a van and neatly piled parts of wardrobe units up against our wall and dumped several box loads of miscellaneous rubbish, saying the council had been contacted and would be taking it away shortly. At the time I assumed they must be acting on behalf of one of the other flat holders here. After a week , rifling though the rubbish I found envelopes with a name and address not six miles from here, and so, on New Year's morning, yes, I cycled there, not without considerable trepidation for the reception I could have been in for! The lady of the house answered the door, and fetched her husband, and the latter was extremely apologetic - this must have been in response to my happy new year manner! - telling me that he had contacted the "disposal firm" via an ad in the paper, and had paid them £100 to dispose of the items described. He then promised to get them taken away the day after next; we exchanged phone numbers, and he actually turned up himself, as promised. After loading the items onto a lorry he'd hired, he again apologised profusely, then handed me a bottle of what turned out to be quality Greek wine, "for my troubles". So, there are, it would seem, still decent people in this world, contrary to impressions, reinforced by a lot of hearsay!

I often think that the cost elements that have been imposed by local authorities are a shot in their foot eg rubble, plaster board and the like as they encourage fly tipping, and their costs in policing that probably exceeds what their takings. It would make more sense to make disposal as simple and free of charge. You are a brave man S_A with your Jan 1 bike ride, you could have been greeted by someone with, in the words of Max Boyce, ‘shoulders like tallboys’.

[Dave2002]

So they may be. Legitimate waste collection firms have to be licensed. It shouldn't be too hard to find one.

Depends where one is within the country. The responsibility for checking that a waste collection firm is legitimate and licensed has been passed back to the users - sloppy - easy cop out.

Also - we may “hate” the EU, but the WEE directive for electrical goods makes it fairly clear what options are available for disposal of electrical goods. There is nothing similar for other forms of service - e.g. small builders, carpenters, plumbers, gardeners and the like. I know that some will incur charges if they take waste away, but that’s no reason for them not to do it, or be required to at least offer that as a service. Charges for waste disposal should be reasonable - whatever that means!

Some may offer to take waste away at prohibitive rates, so as to avoid having to do it!

[french frank]

Depends where one is within the country. The responsibility for checking that a waste collection firm is legitimate and licensed has been passed back to the users - sloppy - easy cop out.

True, it probably does depend where you live. I made straight for Google and searched for Bristol licensed waste disposal. Several possibilities (failing the local council) but an address, telephone number, website, description of the company might suggest which one seemed best, most traceable if something went wrong. That seems easier than disposing of Lat's (or mine) tin of paint. I do think I would have challenged (20/20 hindsight - or rather not being there at all) someone dumping stuff against my front wall saying 'The council is coming'. Where has the council been told to come? To my address? Why?

Also - we may “hate” the EU

but the WEE directive for electrical goods makes it fairly clear what options are available for disposal of electrical goods.

Indeed. But soon we shall no longer be regulated by the Landfill Directive and will be free to dump as much as we like in landfill, including all the stuff generating methane - in the short-term more damaging than carbon dioxide, but what the hell …

[Dave2002]

Indeed. But soon we shall no longer be regulated by the Landfill Directive and will be free to dump as much as we like in landfill, including all the stuff generating methane - in the short-term more damaging than carbon dioxide, but what the hell …

Mmmmm. But I thought we have been promised that the UK will comply with all or most of the current EU directives.

not sure ....

[Bryn]

. . . soon we shall no longer be regulated by the Landfill Directive and will be free to dump as much as we like in landfill, including all the stuff generating methane - in the short-term more damaging than carbon dioxide, but what the hell …

https://www.viridor.co.uk/our-operations/energy/landfill-gas-recovery/

However, the dilute and disperse landfill site, capped in the late 1960s and now a mainly meadowland park, situated a few hundred metres from my abode, merely has dispersal vents for its methane.