Is recycling worthwhile?

[Dave2002]

I watched the Inside the Factory programme about Baked Beans recently. Apparently the metal used in a new can contains about 25% of recyled metal - perhaps much of that from cans which have already been used and recovered from refuse. However, that means that approximately 75% of the content of each can is new - made from iron ore. Note though, that iron is rather abundant.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07mddqk The Baked Beans episode is no longer available.

Other forms of recycling may not work very well. Paper recycling works best, so I'm told, if the paper is clean and dry, so tossing the odd coffee cup into the recycling bin is likely to reduce the value of recycled paper - possibly to a point where it is effectively worthless. Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall has been waging his "own" War on Waste - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07m8qwz - not currently available. Coffee cups are one of his pet hates.

Some ideas from previous years - https://www.theguardian.com/environm...te-environment

https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2013/07/13/does-recycling-really-work/qo9I5UM6yXw4ouswmIdXFK/story.html

http://www.mhgbio.com/the-30-percent-solution-why-recycling-works-but-doesnt-work/

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/conservation/issues/recycling-reality.htm

So is recycling worthwhile? Does participating in recycling help to "save the planet"? Is it a futile and pointless waste ot time, and a diversion? Would it be better to concentrate on using fewer resources in the first place? Or should we all give up, enjoy ourselves, and trash the place into the bargain?

[french frank]

Paper recycling works best, so I'm told, if the paper is clean and dry, so tossing the odd coffee cup into the recycling bin is likely to reduce the value of recycled paper - possibly to a point where it is effectively worthless.

If the local authority provides proper collection facilities, that shouldn't happen. Ve hev our instructions: any food-contaminated paper goes into the wheelie bin for landfill. I put clean paper - cardboard is separate - into a plastic bag which the waste men tip into the appropriate compartment of their vehicle (I assume ) and they return my bag which I reuse. I suppose councils vary - but just because some councils and some people are, so to speak, rubbish, we don't all have to be.

[jean]

Does participating in recycling help to "save the planet"? Is it a futile and pointless waste ot time, and a diversion?

It's probably somewhere between the two.

Would it be better to concentrate on using fewer resources in the first place?

We should certainly be doing that as well! If the focus on recycling means we use more natural resources than we otherwise might, that needs addressing.

There's recycling and recycling, of course. Far better to clean and reuse glass bottles than smash them up and and reconstitute the bits. That's why I have my milk delivered.

(Will it be a consequence of Brexit that we no longer have to abide by EU targets for landfill?)

[french frank]

(Will it be a consequence of Brexit that we no longer have to abide by EU targets for landfill?)

It will in theory, unless the UK negotiates an opt-in - which it's unlikely to attempt.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/08/uk-opposes-new-eu-waste-recycling-targets-in-leaked-paper

Remember Tony Blair was an opponent of fortnightly landfill rubbish collection? I don't find it a problem, even with the council's smallest bin.

[jean]

Nor do I! It was very stupid I think for the council here to introduce enormous wheelie bins, and empty them every week, before they provided any means of recycling. Of course people objected then when collections went fortnightly, but what they'd never had, they wouldn't have missed!

[Dave2002]

If the local authority provides proper collection facilities, that shouldn't happen. Ve hev our instructions: any food-contaminated paper goes into the wheelie bin for landfill. I put clean paper - cardboard is separate - into a plastic bag which the waste men tip into the appropriate compartment of their vehicle (I assume ) and they return my bag which I reuse. I suppose councils vary - but just because some councils and some people are, so to speak, rubbish, we don't all have to be.

Ah - but did you watch the Hugh FW programme. One of his points is that many people think some articles - such as "paper" coffee cups - are recyclable, whereas in fact at present they are a disaster.

Starbucks, Costa et al do little to persuade their customers otherwise.

[oddoneout]

The whole thing is a complete and utter mess in this country, which I find infuriating and dispiriting. I was brought up to avoid waste and to re-use whatever could be re-used, so the lack of facilities and encouragement to enable others to do the same has been a constant irritation. The lack of consistency across different areas does little to help the situation. There is a central waste sorting depot about 15 miles from where I live, to which at last 3 councils send their district's waste. Each district though has its own rules about what can go in recycling bins, and in what condition, and even what bins are provided. The town tip(waste recycling facility - sort of) chops and changes what it will take from one visit to another and still, despite a so-called Re-use Shop, sends perfectly usable items to landfill or the crushing plastic and wood skips.
Promotional materials(bags, pens etc) used to have writ large and clear 'Reduce, Re-use, Recycle'(the town council added Avoid as the first). Introduction of various targets and legislation(much of it due to GB over-interpretation/implementation of EU rules I suspect) has knocked out the first two and replaced them with just recycle, which of course sends the message loud and clear that it's OK to create waste so long as you recycle it.
Despite(and sometimes because of) the very unsatisfactory situation in this country I will continue to do my bit. A six decade old habit is hard to break, I feel a moral obligation to do my bit, and if there isn't the demand for such facilities and more importantly perhaps recycled products such as paper, fabrics, plastics, metal, then nothing will improve.
As an aside some time ago when a City Council(think it was Liverpool) was criticised for not meeting recycling targets they pointed out the stupid situation created by such targets whereby an authority could reduce the amount send to landfill(by efforts to reduce the amount being produced in the first place and re-using as much as possible) but if the recycling targets were not met(possibly as a result of the preventative programme) then it had 'failed'. In other words the emphasis was still on throwing away.

[oddoneout]

I watched the Inside the Factory programme about Baked Beans recently. Apparently the metal used in a new can contains about 25% of recyled metal - perhaps much of that from cans which have already been used and recovered from refuse. However, that means that approximately 75% of the content of each can is new - made from iron ore. Note though, that iron is rather abundant.

I read recently that there are huge stocks of recycled steel worlwide(ie China I suspect!), such that production from raw materials shouldn't be necessary for sometime - in theory.There is a bit of a Catch 22 situation though because in practice the quality of the recycled stuff rules it out for many/most users. The quality could be increased(although there are limits, it's not as good as aluminium in that respect) but so long as the price and availability of new steel makes that the first choice then there's no incentive....
As for the whole recycle or not question, until we get to a situation where all the costs involved(in particular through audit of environmental considerations) in producing a given material, whether from new or from waste, can be taken into account then creating demand for what can be produced from waste will continue to be compromised,the decisions will tend to fall in favour of 'new' material, and that affects recycling programmes at source.

[Old Grumpy]

It's probably somewhere between the two.

We should certainly be doing that as well! If the focus on recycling means we use more natural resources than we otherwise might, that needs addressing.

There's recycling and recycling, of course. Far better to clean and reuse glass bottles than smash them up and and reconstitute the bits. That's why I have my milk delivered.

Me too, but I guess it's not available everywhere. "Doorstep fresh" does have its disadvantages though - this a.m. I took the milk in and found a slug at the top of one of the bottles, wrapped around one side of the foil cap. I'm afraid I "recycled" the milk in that bottle via the sink! The bottle will be recycled at the next delivery.

OG

[french frank]

Ah - but did you watch the Hugh FW programme. One of his points is that many people think some articles - such as "paper" coffee cups - are recyclable, whereas in fact at present they are a disaster.

Do they use paper coffee cups at home, or take them home with them to 'recycle'?

The BCC site says: "Paper is sent to Aylesford in Kent.

This is the largest paper recycling plant in Europe and takes all types of paper. All inks, staples etc are washed out of the paper with soapy water in huge drums or vats."

I'm surprised coffee cups can withstand this. [Note to self: No need to remove staples in future]

[jean]

But what we're talking about here is not paper, but "paper" - which (until Hugh sorts it, anyway) has an inner film of plastic to stop it disintegrating before you've drunk the contents, and is therefore unrecyclable.

[vinteuil]

.

... but is that different from tetrapak? Our council encourages us to put tetrapak cartons (Tropicana etc) in their 'recycling' bags.

[Dave2002]

But what we're talking about here is not paper, but "paper" - which (until Hugh sorts it, anyway) has an inner film of plastic to stop it disintegrating before you've drunk the contents, and is therefore unrecyclable.

I know that, you know that, but apparently most people buying the coffee don't know that. Longer term, there might be a truly recyclable cup product, but I don't think it's happened yet.

[french frank]

I know, that, you know that, but apparently most people buying the coffee don't know that. Longer term, there might be a truly recyclable cup product, but I don't think it's happened yet.

I still don't quite understand how they dispose of them. Our waste men sort through the plastic for example, and chuck back the black plastic as they don't take it (why do companies/shops still use it?). Do they just drop the cups loose into their boxes or what?

[Dave2002]

I think there are so many problems. Quite a number of consumers don't care, but there are probably quite a significant number who do - but most people don't really know enough to know which stuff is going to be recycled, which stuff is going to contaminate the potential recyclable material, which stuff should be classed as unrecyclable, and I guess some people just make mistakes anyway. Without having any more information about what processes any council or recycler is going to apply, it's hard for most of us to get things right.