Is recycling worthwhile?

[MrGongGong]

Actually, it is here: the path, not that you can see it, runs below the kitchen window and the gate is to the side.

And you say it is "worth" what ???

In the civilised parts of the UK you could buy a Victorian rectory with outbuildlings and a bit of woodland for that.

[Lat-Literal]

And you say it is "worth" what ???

In the civilised parts of the UK you could buy a Victorian rectory with outbuildlings and a bit of woodland for that.

Exactly. That is Greater London for you, albeit a quarter of a mile from Surrey. The living room is 13 by 12 and the main bedroom is about the same. The second bedroom is 12 by 9.5 plus there is a bathroom and a kitchen so it is probably bigger than you would think from the outside. I find it a bit too big for me and my needs but I wouldn't want a flat again. I actually want a one bedroom detached bungalow with a sizeable back garden which is nigh on impossible to obtain as society is vehemently opposed to any sort of independence.

I don't know if I mentioned this - the original value was about £6,300. The first owners, I kid you not, were the Deputy Director of the RAC and his wife. They chose it in 1968 for the views and quietness. In 1982, on retirement, they moved into a standard five bedroomed detached house in Derby for around the same money for what this was sold. I have no idea what that was. I bought it on a mortgage for £205,000 in 2005. It was originally on the market in that year for £239,000 but I knew who was selling it and got it at a knock down price.

And just to add to the weirdness of it all, the one to the right was genuinely owned for two years by the boy band celebrity Dane Bowers who was living there with an ex Miss Wales. We had wall to wall television cameras down here one day when he did a Celebrity Learns D-I-Y show. He too moved from there into a massive place, quite local, with a double driveway.

The proof : last paragraph - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-20584393

Footnote: The inflation is negligible compared with other parts of London. When I got my flat in Sutton for £43,000 in the early 1990s, I knew of an accountant who was buying a two up two down Victorian terraced on street with double parking, in Richmond for £129 K. Mine was sold in '05 at just over the £100,000 mark. She has just sold hers for just under a million.

[oddoneout]

choice of exchanging the large regulation bin for a smaller one (48cms wide!)

Many years ago this was an option in my area which I took up. It was perfectly adequate for our family needs(glass and paper went to the appropriate banks when shopping), and I was more than annoyed on moving house in 2007 to be told that I could no longer have a small bin, even though I was now a single person household and with the introduction of the recycling bin there was even less to go in the ordinary bin. No credible reason has ever been given - the trucks can still lift the few remaining small bins that exist, which is the only reason I would consider to be acceptable.
When my son was living in a 6th floor flat in London he was able to dispose of 'garden' waste for free by using the appropriate sack and taking it down to put beside the communal bins. It was a useful service as he and his other half made full use of their large balcony for veg production, but composting waste wasn't really an option.....
Last year, in a move which didn't go down well with some it was decided that the garden waste bins would be chargeable for all the county's residents. It took long enough for those at County Hall to recognise that having some folks paying close to £40 pa while others paid nothing was perhaps not the best arrangement. Doubtless the amount of green waste dumped in hedges increased, but such waste isn't really in the same class as the stuff that's now being dumped( or in many cases burnt) following the introduction of charges for DIY waste, not least because it will at least breakdown (relatively)harmlessly in due course.

This is a more general answer to the 'Is it worth it?' question. To which I answer, Yes. (At least, it is in Bristol)

And this is the rub in many cases isn't it - those of us who would like to do more or know that the service provided is less than ideal but are constrained by locality in addition to the ongoing constraints of local government finance(or lack of) which controls what contracts are chosen.

[Lat-Literal]

No comfort to you, but it sounds like a very inefficient system. Could you not put your grass cuttings back on the garden? I suppose you have other garden waste, though. Before I started using paper garden sacks (£1 each to cover collection) I had an arrangement with a neighbour (those damn neighbours, again ) whereby I put my odd bits of garden stuff in their bin, and gave them a tenner every now and again to cover their annual bin cost).

Our two boxes are each for specified stuff for recycling. The council have a booklet which is delivered to every household and an online video where they describe what goes in the two boxes. Black bin for glass, paper, household batteries, textiles; green box for plastic bottles and trays, empty aerosol cans, cardboard and brown paper, tetrapaks, aluminium foil, tins and cans, plastic and metal lids and caps. For most households that works, though we have quite a few student houses where the bottles and drinks cans seem in danger of overflowing every week. A small food bin is for - food, plus a caddy for inside the house. Everything not specified as recyclable goes in the wheelie bin - though we have a choice of exchanging the large regulation bin for a smaller one (48cms wide!). My garden waste sack is collected separately (when it is ). I think that well worth doing, if the alternative is shoving everything in the wheelie bin (collection once a fortnight). The food &c. is used for fertiliser and processed for biogas and heavy transport fuel. This is a more general answer to the 'Is it worth it?' question. To which I answer, Yes. (At least, it is in Bristol)

Thank you again. Your arrangements sound a lot more straightforward. Honestly, the new industrial sized blue bin on wheels could only be filled by one person once a season and perhaps that's the point. Fewer collections as people get fed up with carting a "truck" containing a couple of local newspapers down the steps. Big money for the company and/or council but god help the infirm. 48cm is probably about the size of the two bins I'm after as replacements but so far to no avail. On sharing with neighbours, actually I pay for the grass cuttings bin for two households. Not just mine. The council tax should deliver a basic, equal service to everyone for the remainder. I do, of course, have family nearby - but that is not a long term solution. As for other neighbours, in the main they are reasonably nice but there is generally some kind of payback. It would be "will you now support us in getting that bloke in the top garden to chop down all his trees - they are blocking our light". And I don't really have an issue with that or with him or wish to become embroiled in it seeing it is further conflict.

[Lat-Literal]

I have now drafted this - and offered it to Inside Croydon:

More News On Bingate

I

A Coulsdon resident said: "I was calling it a fly tip of bins on my home but it was worse than that. It was like the Council had parked its tanks on my lawn. Except I don't have a lawn. Just a very short path which is four centimetres narrower than the width of the three largest bins.

Obviously I couldn't use the path or the side gate or even access most of the bins. They couldn't be "presented" as the Council describes it for emptying. I suppose they feel that this is my fault.

But in the event of a house fire, one escape route was blocked off. I felt they were contravening the conditions of my insurance company on my own property and there was nothing I could do about it".

II

There were, in fact, nine bins and the space was so limited that the new standard refuse bin was placed on its side on top of three others. The view from the kitchen window was reduced and as heavy winds blow up the hill, that bin could have come flying through, shattering glass.

Ironically, the only solution seemed to be to increase the number of bins to eleven by ordering a smaller sized bin for both green recyclables and grass cuttings. But neither was possible on the Council's internet system so that route for compliance was also blocked.

The resident accepted that ultimately only five bins would need to be used and that smaller bins would help in that respect if ever provided. But he would still have six unusable bins which would have to be dumped in his tiny back garden.

III

He added "I am surprised that this Labour Council has gone all Tory on us - and is favouring those who don't care about the environment. The rich have space. They have cars which they can use to get the bins they don't need to a dump. They have concreted their gardens so that they can own many cars and house large numbers of bins.

It is the poor, old and disabled people who are suffering in silence, carrying these things around to try to fit them into unsuitable spaces. There will probably be a few heart attacks or at least twisted ankles.

And they have really hit the environmentally friendly. I don't have concrete : I put in rose bushes last year. I don't have any vehicle. If I had done exactly what the Council wanted - lined up all the bins side by side - even walking wouldn't have been an option. I wouldn't have been able to get out of my front door"."

[Dave2002]

Re bins ... slightly amusing story.

When my mother was in her later years and I think by then living on her own in a rural part of the UK she actually fell into her bin and had considerable difficulty getting out again. She was told afterwards that the council should have been able to provide her with a smaller bin, though I'm not sure that that ever happened, or that her council was providing such bins. I should also add that she was not a very short person - probably tall for her age, so perhaps she wasn't the only person to have had this problem. On the other hand perhaps her height enabled her to look over into the bin which a shorter person would have found more difficult. I think she must have been trying to get something which had fallen in back out of the bin.

[jean]

She might have been trying to clean it

[vinteuil]

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... here, bins seem to be a thing of the past. The London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham provides us with rolls of orange polythene bags into which all recyclable stuff goes; we are expected to provide bags into which all non-recyclable stuff goes. Bags to be put out on the pavement early in the morning on collection days; where we are there are two collection days every week.

Lat-Lit's barricade of nine bins does seem excessive...

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[french frank]

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... here, bins seem to be a thing of the past. The London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham provides us with rolls of orange polythene bags into which all recyclable stuff goes; we are expected to provide bags into which all non-recyclable stuff goes. Bags to be put out on the pavement early in the morning on collection days; where we are there are two collection days every week.

In Clifton where some houses have been converted into flats, they have no front garden (and upper flats have no back garden either). Plastic bags are put out for collection by 7am on collection days (probably the night before, the same as bins).

Considering Lat's problem: If he is alone in his road with this problem, then he probably needs a one-off solution. Would it be possible to get a builder to widen the the path just inside the front gate, just long enough to house however many 60cm bins he has to stand side by side? One large wheelie bin seems excessive for one person (as I say, I take 6 weeks sometimes to fill a small bin). Two sounds like not taking recycling seriously (and I mean the Council, not Lat). Or a sledgehammer to crack a nut.


By the way, I think we have established that we are talking about a value of £300,000 not £30,000, haven't we?

[vinteuil]

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... have we found out why his local authority requires Lat-Lit to have nine bins?

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[MrGongGong]

By the way, I think we have established that we are talking about a value of £300,000 not £30,000, haven't we?

If one can afford to live in a house worth that much surely one has a minion to attend to the detritus of life ?
Gong Farmers of the world unite

[Lat-Literal]

In Clifton where some houses have been converted into flats, they have no front garden (and upper flats have no back garden either). Plastic bags are put out for collection by 7am on collection days (probably the night before, the same as bins).

Considering Lat's problem: If he is alone in his road with this problem, then he probably needs a one-off solution. Would it be possible to get a builder to widen the the path just inside the front gate, just long enough to house however many 60cm bins he has to stand side by side? One large wheelie bin seems excessive for one person (as I say, I take 6 weeks sometimes to fill a small bin). Two sounds like not taking recycling seriously (and I mean the Council, not Lat). Or a sledgehammer to crack a nut.


By the way, I think we have established that we are talking about a value of £300,000 not £30,000, haven't we?

The places opposite have very steep steps down and there are very many of them. The road is just on the brow of a 1 in 9. There is at least one nonagenarian on that side and several people with ill health. Few people are discussing it. Some have stuck theirs in garages. Most are hoping it all goes away. Some do have a bit more space at the bottom of their steps. Some on this side have a bit more room to their side but not much. Those with grass are arguably in a slightly better position for wheeling but you can't balance bins on sloped lawns.

There is no way of widening the path behind the gate at the side of my house. The fence divides my place from the one on the right (post Dane) which has the same width of path. These pictures of the opposite side of the road and the road entry do not in any way show the steepness as it is but give an indication. It's the second highest place in all of Greater London. I can see above the roofs about three times the amount of woodland shown as this place is higher than it seems and the hill continues on steeply behind this house too.

I have been checking on the law. It isn't crystal clear, especially with some misleading articles from the Daily Mail. But I don't think people are under an obligation to recycle unless a local authority has done everything it can to make that possible. In this case, there is now, sadly, masses of one way correspondence that suggests quite the contrary. But the leading politicians on the Council have during this period found time to award themselves 6% increases and the "award winning" Chief Executive is on considerably more money than the PM.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/14+Ambercroft+Way,+Coulsdon+CR5+1HT/@51.3051578,-0.1124401,3a,90y,44.91h,74.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swAXMSm34-YgY3wPwt9C6hQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DwAXMSm34-YgY3wPwt9C6hQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D43.801975%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4875fdcb358b2be5:0xce48b8a210875c93!2s14+Ambercroft+Way,+Coulsdon+CR5+1HT!3b1!8m2!3d51.3052669!4d-0.1122002!3m4!1s0x4875fdcb358b2be5:0xce48b8a210875c93!8m2!3d51.3052669!4d-0.1122002

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/41+Keston+Ave,+Coulsdon/@51.3047708,-0.1118694,3a,75y,63.87h,69.9t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sOgNQyfPNcJT6XALp30klcg!2e0!3e11!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fmaps%2Fphotothumb%2Ffd%2Fv1%3Fbpb%3DChAKDnNlYXJjaC5UQUNUSUxFEmUKNwkR6orPNPx1SBGsbIYIuDYBZhojCxDThbhCGhoSGAoUChIJEeqKzzT8dUgRK-Zd38Dhp0kQKQwSCg1KfJQeFRTx7v8aEgnn8-AyNfx1SBEd00mYddRWdSoKDUp8lB4VFPHu_xoECFYQVg%26gl%3DGB!7i13312!8i6656!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4875fc34cf8aea11:0x660136b808866cac!2s41+Keston+Ave,+Coulsdon!3b1!8m2!3d51.3047626!4d-0.1117932!3m4!1s0x4875fc34cf8aea11:0x660136b808866cac!8m2!3d51.3047626!4d-0.1117932

[Lat-Literal]

.

... have we found out why his local authority requires Lat-Lit to have nine bins?

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It's (a) and (b) two green boxes for plastics, glass, tins etc to be phased out on 3 Sep (c) one blue box for paper to be phased out on 3 Sep (d) the food waste caddy and (e) the new 60cm by 60cm blue top wheelie bin for paper replacing the blue box.

Then there is (f) the dustbin which was a standard dustbin on the grounds that in 2005 these places were deemed inappropriate for a standard refuse wheelie bin - all those who have had a standard wheelie bin for refuse are now to use that for plastics, glass, tins etc rather than the green bins (g) the new 60cm by 60cm wheelie bin which was delivered to me for plastics, glass, tins etc as the ordinary dustbin would be too flimsy for the new use (h) the grass cuttings bin which is 60cm by 60cm and (i) the new smaller wheelie bin to be used for standard refuse. I have tried to obtain (j) a smaller sized version of (g) but that is not possible to order at this time and (k) ideally, I would have a smaller grass cuttings bin but I am being told that this isn't possible until the start of the new financial year.

We have all been advised that (a), (b) and (c) will not be removed once redundant. We will have to use them for something in our gardens. Nor would they remove (e), (f) although that has been replaced by (i), (g) if a smaller version of (g) was ever provided or (h) if a smaller version of (h) was ever provided. I have managed to get rid of (f) - a friend took it away in his car. I have sent (c) and (g) to a temporary location and I don't have any intention of bringing them back although what is annoying is that the location is also part of my property. Consequently, they are out of sight but not out of mind and they are the key ones I am supposed to be using from 3 Sep. And (h) is now on my next door neighbour's lawn. Well, haven't they in Ivory Towers just made it so easy for us? Erm…...no.

[vinteuil]

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... I think Lat-Lit shd request from his Local Authority one final large single-use bin (j) into which he can place all the surplus, un-needed, duplicate, and irrelevant bins from his set (a) - (i).

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[Lat-Literal]

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... I think Lat-Lit shd request from his Local Authority one final large single-use bin (j) into which he can place all the surplus, un-needed, duplicate, and irrelevant bins from his set (a) - (i).

.

Yes, a standard size builders' skip with towing truck should suffice.