Is this an issue raised too high?

[Serial_Apologist]

Long ago, in a galaxy far away....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbZg9vUZY8

...whole layers of cultural & psychosexual analyses implicit in that one....

A woman's right to shoes?

[Dave2002]

If by an issue raised too high you mean something really not important enough for the level of interest it's received, I can ony disagree (and presume you aren't a woman)

(I think you're supposed to refer to it as WATO, ferney.)

I signed the petition. I don't want to get involved in arguments for or against high heeled shoes. Some women may like them, others not. I just think it's not up to an employer to try to dictate this for petty - or even sexist - reasons. It has nothing to do with the job - or shouldn't have.

[jean]

...Interesting however that Olivia Colman doesn't figure on the cover at all - but there cd be good aesthetic reasons for that in that a trio of figures may look better than a foursome...

Or simply that in the book she's a man?

[jayne lee wilson]

A woman's right to shoes?

Man in video:
Lowpitched voice, demanding, commanding; utility haircut & dress; money, status- and goal-oriented. Sees fashion items solely in economic terms. "In control", yet criminally furtive, on The Street ...

Woman:
Highpitched voice; imploring, pleading; helpless, passive, appealing to unconcerned strangers; decorative hair & dress; no obvious goal or status (except, for some viewing cognoscenti, "fashionista"). Sees fashion items in emotional and individually associative & affective terms. "At men's mercy", yet open-hearted, on the street(s); finally, some rueful self-awareness in the company of - a male law-enforcer.

One may easily imagine similar, role-reversed or same-sex scenarii involving Trainers, with signifiers and signifieds of widely varying valencies.

[vinteuil]

Or simply that in the book she's a man?

... of course! Stupid of me

As I said earlier I don't think le Carre is ever particularly good with his female characters; he seldom gives them believably central roles.

[Richard Tarleton]

... of course! Stupid of me

As I said earlier I don't think le Carre is ever particularly good with his female characters; he seldom gives them believably central roles.

He wrote one novel with a female central character, with some success IMV (The Little Drummer Girl). The character was inspired by seeing his half-sister Charlotte Cornwell play Beatrice in a touring RSC production - a beautiful young actress with a radical background recruited by the Circus to penetrate a terrorist organisation. Charlotte acted as adviser for the acting and radical politics bits, a lot of the back story is hers (and of course David's/Le Carré's) - David Sisman's biog, pages 424-5. Not a heels type.

[ahinton]

Well, one might suppose that a response level of more than 50 posts reveals that this forum has provided a platform for discussion of the subject and that said discussion has not yet fallen over as one might expect some of the wearers of the more outrageously high heels to do when walking and most especially running.

Mindful of the fact that this forum is principally devoted to musical matters, I notice that the otherwise excellent pianist Yuja Wang has a habit of wearing these absurdly impractical shoes when performing; how this affects her pedalling technique must be open to question, particularly if and when she uses the sostenuto pedal in addition to those either side of it.

I imagine that most wearers of them would change them for flats when driving, which would surely be well-nigh impossible otherwise, yet I don't think that there's a dress code for taking the driving test and I cannot imagine a police officer pulling a driver to one side and delivering the admonition "you shouldn't wear high heels and drive"...

[Petrushka]

For those who have to comply with employment contracts, it's generally a mite more tricky. Unless you thrive on the aggro of work place tribunals, possible suspensions, compromise agreements, uncertain future employment (eg why did you leave your last job? Oh, I refused to comply with their dress policy) then a little more diplomacy is usually advisable!

Coming late to this thread, but this is pretty much spot on. Most of the women in my office come to work as if dressed for a party while us gents have to suffer the daily strangulation that is wearing a tie. How some of the ladies (not all by any means young) get away with it is something of a mystery. If I went in without a tie it would be the End Of Civilisation As We Know It.

I did once pop into the office for a short while one afternoon on the way back from London so was dressed casually in chinos and trainers and without a tie. It felt so much better and I felt relaxed and happy to work thus dressed. Back to normal the following morning of course!

[Richard Tarleton]

Most of the women in my office come to work as if dressed for a party while us gents have to suffer the daily strangulation that is wearing a tie.

Pet, I'm lucky to have spent my working life in a job (nature conservation, countryside management) where the dress code, in as far as there is one, is largely androgynous. Footwear is entirely governed by practicality. Office-based staff largely dress down. Even the dress code of the male part of the land agent profession (tweed jacket, Tattersall shirt, mustard coloured corduroys, ties with dead things depicted on them ) has softened slightly, though most country towns still have traditional gents' outfitters with sections (at the back, behind a curtain) devoted to such attire. But high heels - definitely not.

[jean]

It could be argued that the difference between ties (for men) and high heels (for women) is that men aren't lured into wearing ties because women thinks it makes them look sexier.

[Richard Tarleton]

In today's Sunday Times (I wouldn't know this stuff otherwise) Julia Roberts appeared on the red carpet at Cannes last week in bare feet (let them try telling her it's heels only); elsewhere, Jennifer Lawrence tripped over her heels again....as the piece says, tragic rather than appealingly feminine.....

[MrGongGong]

while us gents have to suffer the daily strangulation that is wearing a tie.

Do you really "have" to wear one?

The only times I wear a the neck noose is when going to some funerals (though one of the last ones I went to had people dressed like people and I played the squeezebox in the band while the coffin was lowered into the ground and people danced and sang in Welsh)

[Petrushka]

Do you really "have" to wear one?

The short answer is 'yes'. It is expected of all employees that they come to work, whether customer facing or not, dressed smartly. It is all part of the image that the company wants to present and you would literally risk your job to make an issue out of it, therefore we chaps conform. As I say, the ladies have things pretty much as they want. Most come dressed as for an evening out, very loose and casual, pushing the boundaries to the limit without breaking them.

Office life is very sexist - in favour of women - but you won't find many people brave enough to stick their head above the parapet and say so. Pay is a different topic but isn't relevant where I am.

[MrGongGong]

The short answer is 'yes'. It is expected of all employees that they come to work, whether customer facing or not, dressed smartly. .

Why should that include a tie?

Bonkers

[Dave2002]

It could be argued that the difference between ties (for men) and high heels (for women) is that men aren't lured into wearing ties because women thinks it makes them look sexier.

Sexier - perhaps no, but nagging wives have had habits.

"You can't go out looking like that!"
"Why not?"
"It's untidy."
"So what?"
"At least comb your hair."

This might work ....
"You'll look like Boris Johnson ..."

"OK - I'll do the hair, at least ...."

"Then put on a clean tie...."
etc.

Re shirts ....
"Your shirt hasn't been ironed. you can't go out like that!"
"Why not - it's drip dry, it'll smooth out?"

"People will think I didn't iron them for you."

or for more PC households "People will think you're too lazy to iron your own shirts."

etc.