Originally posted by vinteuil
View Post
-
Or indeed, the 15 million plus Uyghurs, Turkic Muslims, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz in Xinjiang and other NW provinces of China, who are subject to a raft of well-documented human rights abuses now viewed by many countries as amounting to genocide -- arbitrary detention, slave labour, torture, forced sterilization, mass rape, medical experimentation, the list goes on.
-
No specialty insight here. Assad was terrible. It’s hard to imagine that his replacement could be worse, but it canOriginally posted by Mario View Post
Iran and Russia the big losers here, along with the Kurds. Turkey and Israel at this time are the winners. The Syrian people? Time will tellComment
-
I believe it is possible to examine the situation there without taking a Birds Eye View of the last few millenniaOriginally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
Too many whatabouteries there, vints.
I'm glad someone (Mario) has had the nerve to start a thread on Syria - I had given thought to one myself, and am glad for a chance to say something before the iron curtain comes down. We all need something that is at least provisionally cheering to think and talk about in these otherwise dreary times.
From the various "Islamic" régimes that have emerged over the past 25 years one does not get a clear picture from which to detect the hidden gaps in Islam that allow for progressive thinking on its terms. I say this leaving aside the theological dimension, which is of no interest to a non-believer in any case. What has been cited have been Islam's historical contributions to philosophy, mathematics, science and the arts - some of which, it is said, predating Western thought advancements by the time of the Crusades. Islam was then inclusive, one learns. Should we not regard the role of lender in Islamic society as progressive in comparison with our own? All religions contain progressive and reactionary aspects - their origination from sects was destined to be shaped by the dominant economic requirements of successive ages, replicating the top-down command structure characteristics of societies dominated by privileged elites or figureheads, whether they be tribal chieftains, royalties, military commanders, heads of dominating businesses or bureaucrats - all people who dole out sweeteners to those in the higher social ranks beneath them to maintain order in the end, whether by coercion or persuasion. Islam is no different from Christianity in these respects. Islam's apparent delay in "catching up" with the historic liberalisations manifest in mainstream Christianity is as much a reflection of its hegemony over large parts of the under-developed world for which one should blame capitalism, rather than those peoples seeking certainties of any kind when historically the west has long gone out of its way to prevent alternative secularist pathways which would inevitably question and challenge capitalism's monopoly of power.
That said, Afghanistan at the end of the 1980s provides something of a watershed in respect of outcomes for Islamic transmogrification. It was there that America with support (tacit and direct) of its western allies, armed what turned out to be the right wing of that country's war against its Russian occupiers, the Mojahedin, who then turned their weapons on the Fedayeen, who might be considered in relative terms as the left wing of the resistance, before itself transforming into the various extreme right factions destined to become Al Qaeda and Islamic State. Against inordinate odds progressive elements within Islam have bravely battled on for progressive reform in seats of government, mosques, social services and academia. This division between left and right (if you will), post 9/11, was well explained in a two-part edition of a Panorama-type programme on BBC1 from 2002 titled Culture Clash - the first part of which subtitled The Hidden Jihad from 2002 interviewed young men who had forsaken Western values for Jihad, and the second subtitled Mum, I'm a Muslim, looked at the culture change from the woman's point of view. While the first programme was both dispiriting and disturbing - we saw university-trained young middle class British-born Asian men preparing to go to Iraq to fight "the evil West" invasion - the second was illuminating from a feminist perspective that has largely been ignored by western media in the interim.
We may feel sceptical about grass roots movements which go back for founding principles to Feudal times, failing to acknowledge this has long been a part of Western radical traditions. At various junctures civilisations faced crossroads concerning future directions, even survival. At the moment the alt-right is in ascendancy in the West - perhaps we should give the new movement in Syria a chance: in presenting themselves as moderates they are uncorking empowering possibilities they will find difficult to stuff back into the bottle. As to the question why the scepticism or suspicion, anything, any movement that risks political independence and does not bow down to western governments demanding proscribed pathways, is not to be trusted to uphold the economic status quo. For humankind as a whole's future this is a terrible mistake, because it will help re-cement the two main institutional sources of Islamic fundamentalism into one.Comment
-
I covered both present and long-term views given the powerful role exerted by religious traditions on present-day politics, particularly in the near and middle East, where supporters often measure current behaviours against millennial practices and principles.Originally posted by richardfinegold View PostComment
-
In effect, the only thing that matters is what happens from now on and we can only judge by what we see and hear. I thought the Jeremy Bowen interview with Ahmed al-Sharaa was interesting. All a case of what you believe and who can be trusted.
It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
-
-
I think the reference was to the person being interviewed. The Islamists have learned to to say the things that Western Media want to hear, as when the Taliban took over Afghanistan. When the World attention is diverted, they then revert to their priors.Originally posted by LMcD View Post
Comment
-
Premature - and dangerously so.Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
We might all end up with what you wish for to prove your point.Comment
-
Exactly. My strategy would be to drop sanctions and pour aid into a stricken country, hope that conditions would improve for ordinary people, make life better for them and trust that this would promote trust. I think that the Islamists may be saying what the west wants to hear, but also what the people want to hear.Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View PostIt isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
-
-
Promising (in my world view):
It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
-
Comment