Dynamic pricing

[Dave2002]

Someone has started a petition against dynamic pricing - no doubt following recent events, such as the pricing of tickets to see Oasis.

However, is there actually anything wrong with dynamic pricing? It is - after all - [mostly] just adjusting price depending on supply and demand.

That seems to be the basis on which the so-called "free market" and capitalism work.

One may have objections fo capitalism - perhaps based on the observation that some other political systems have tried to change interactions - possibly [in theory] for social benefit, but in practice many attempts to replace it, or in some ways do better, have failed, either economically or socially, and in some cases clearly led to significant corruption.

Corruption appears to emerge either in "pure" capitalism, or in systems which seek to avoid it.

[oddoneout]

There are aspects of the Oasis example that exposed some very dubious aspects if the dynamic pricing process. One was the lack of warning that queuing on hold for hours to buy at a certain price might end up being given perhaps only a minute or two to decide whether to complete the purchase at double or more the original quoted price. Trying to say(as the company did) that the likes of airlines use the same process to deflect criticism didn't help as airlines don't do that - although they do have other ways of charging more for the same thing, the initial purchase will be at the price shown. If changes have to be made to that ticket purchase subsequently, that is where the pricing merry-go-round starts.

[Serial_Apologist]

Someone has started a petition against dynamic pricing - no doubt following recent events, such as the pricing of tickets to see Oasis.

However, is there actually anything wrong with dynamic pricing? It is - after all - [mostly] just adjusting price depending on supply and demand.

That seems to be the basis on which the so-called "free market" and capitalism work.

One may have objections fo capitalism - perhaps based on the observation that some other political systems have tried to change interactions - possibly [in theory] for social benefit, but in practice many attempts to replace it, or in some ways do better, have failed, either economically or socially, and in some cases clearly led to significant corruption.

Corruption appears to emerge either in "pure" capitalism, or in systems which seek to avoid it.

Then it's not socialism simple - in the same way most Christianity as practised isn't. Karl Marx advocated a system of political control based on bottom-up grass roots democracy and accountability, based on the example of the Paris Commune of 1971, where all positions of power are elected and subject to recall based on responsibility, community and workplace democracy, where planning of production in quantity, quality and distribution is in the first instance (ie before any other desiderata) involve skilled fulfilling work to meet essential social need and be sustainable not throwaway. One realises from all the lessons of history the privileged richest beneficiaries are not automatically those best suited to running the joint but in using their power to maintain the capitalist system are the main obstacle to creating less greed-driven eco-destructive modes of living. Until people in their millions wake up and address this immediacy, like they did after Grenfell, scarcity, whether set up or unplanned (as in the case of tickets to gigs) will continue to determine how much intermediaries who are really just touts will get away with thinking they can charge.

Would people find Oasis such an attraction? is another question!

[LMcD]

Then it's not socialism simple - in the same way most Christianity as practised isn't. Karl Marx advocated a system of political control based on bottom-up grass roots democracy and accountability, based on the example of the Paris Commune of 1971, where all positions of power are elected and subject to recall based on responsibility, community and workplace democracy, where planning of production in quantity, quality and distribution is in the first instance (ie before any other desiderata) involve skilled fulfilling work to meet essential social need and be sustainable not throwaway. One realises from all the lessons of history the privileged richest beneficiaries are not automatically those best suited to running the joint but in using their power to maintain the capitalist system are the main obstacle to creating less greed-driven eco-destructive modes of living. Until people in their millions wake up and address this immediacy, like they did after Grenfell, scarcity, whether set up or unplanned (as in the case of tickets to gigs) will continue to determine how much intermediaries who are really just touts will get away with thinking they can charge.

Would people find Oasis such an attraction? is another question!

... or would they desert them?

[alywin]

Dynamic pricing shouldn't be happening within minutes / hours of tickets for something going on sale, that's for sure. And the fact is that when it is applied it always seems to be one way - upwards. When do you ever see online prices being reduced? Never? Does it give a bad impression of the venue if you do? (For example, this morning there were loads of amphitheatre tickets still left for this Tuesday's La Traviata at Covent Garden. They'll probably all vanish within 24 hours at what will turn out to be vastly reduced prices, but will those ever appear on the website? No, you'll have to be one of a Chosen Few, or find a promo code somewhere obscure.) Reduced-price tickets may be available for lots of things, but only on sites such as TodayTix, From The Box Office and so on, never directly on the venue's website, in my experience.

[richardfinegold]

The Paris Commune of 1971?

[Pulcinella]

Dynamic pricing shouldn't be happening within minutes / hours of tickets for something going on sale, that's for sure. And the fact is that when it is applied it always seems to be one way - upwards. When do you ever see online prices being reduced? Never? Does it give a bad impression of the venue if you do? (For example, this morning there were loads of amphitheatre tickets still left for this Tuesday's La Traviata at Covent Garden. They'll probably all vanish within 24 hours at what will turn out to be vastly reduced prices, but will those ever appear on the website? No, you'll have to be one of a Chosen Few, or find a promo code somewhere obscure.) Reduced-price tickets may be available for lots of things, but only on sites such as TodayTix, From The Box Office and so on, never directly on the venue's website, in my experience.

I think some airline and maybe train tickets can become significantly cheaper just before departure, but you'd have to be prepared to be very flexible with your travel arrangements to take advantage of them.

[Dave2002]

Dynamic pricing is used in some wholesale and even consumer energy markets, such as electricity and gas.Though that might have useful effects, partly due to changes in end user behaviour. In the case of spare seats on a plane, most airlines have covered the costs of a flight if most of the seats are occumpied, so the marginal cost of flying one or two additional passengers is low and any extra revenue from last minute passengers does help their business, and presumably also some who want to fly.

[Serial_Apologist]

The Paris Commune of 1971?

1871 - apologies for the typo!

[Serial_Apologist]

Dynamic pricing is used in some wholesale and even consumer energy markets, such as electricity and gas.Though that might have useful effects, partly due to changes in end user behaviour. In the case of spare seats on a plane, most airlines have covered the costs of a flight if most of the seats are occumpied, so the marginal cost of flying one or two additional passengers is low and any extra revenue from last minute passengers does help their business, and presumably also some who want to fly.

On the other hand, some people may feel they've been cheated if prices are reduced (for instance because tickets aren't selling) after they've paid for them! In the end, it's best if prices remain unchanged once they have been publicised.

[gradus]

Classical concerts/operas instead have various priority booking schemes that prevent non- scheme members from obtaining tickets until the toffs have had their pick.

[oddoneout]

Classical concerts/operas instead have various priority booking schemes that prevent non- scheme members from obtaining tickets until the toffs have had their pick.

In London perhaps. Out here in the sticks there are "Friends of..." schemes, which often have fairly modest subscriptions and offer discounts and other perks, and don't need a Debretts entry to join. Several of my friends belong to the one for the theatre in the city, and the annual Arts festival has one which, if I wasn't constrained by transport issues for evening events, I would join, ditto a couple of the instrumental ensembles. Another way to do it is to sign up for a concert series in one go, which I have done in the past a couple of times, notably quite a long time ago(when transport wan't an issue) for a 3 concert Baroque series that included one with Suzuki and Bach Collegium Japan; big discount for the initial outlay and for 2 of the concerts I was able to sit in the expensive seats at no extra cost.

[gradus]

In London perhaps. Out here in the sticks there are "Friends of..." schemes, which often have fairly modest subscriptions and offer discounts and other perks, and don't need a Debretts entry to join. Several of my friends belong to the one for the theatre in the city, and the annual Arts festival has one which, if I wasn't constrained by transport issues for evening events, I would join, ditto a couple of the instrumental ensembles. Another way to do it is to sign up for a concert series in one go, which I have done in the past a couple of times, notably quite a long time ago(when transport wan't an issue) for a 3 concert Baroque series that included one with Suzuki and Bach Collegium Japan; big discount for the initial outlay and for 2 of the concerts I was able to sit in the expensive seats at no extra cost.

I had Snape in mind! Having missed out on the few tickets for Pappano/LSO/Frang that weren't taken by the priority given to 'Friends' ie those willing to pay more than the asking price through their 'Friends' subs.

[Retune]

I am not a lawyer, but the way the Oasis tickets were sold might seem appear to the cynical suspiciously like a 'bait and switch' operation. As Wikipedia puts it:

'Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also employed in other contexts. First, the merchant "baits" the customer by advertising a product or service at a low price; then when the customer goes to purchase the item, they discover that it is unavailable, and the merchant pressures them instead to purchase a similar but more expensive product ("switching"). ... In England and Wales, bait and switch is banned under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008; breaking this law can result in a criminal prosecution, an unlimited fine and two years in jail.'

From the legislation, one relevant unfair commercial practice is defined as:

'Making an invitation to purchase products at a specified price without disclosing the existence of any reasonable grounds the trader may have for believing that he will not be able to offer for supply, or to procure another trader to supply, those products or equivalent products at that price for a period that is, and in quantities that are, reasonable having regard to the product, the scale of advertising of the product and the price offered (bait advertising).'

If this sort of ticket selling is not, for some legal reason, already covered by existing laws, it doesn't seem to be much of a stretch to extend them to cover abuses of this kind.

[Dave2002]

On the other hand, some people may feel they've been cheated if prices are reduced (for instance because tickets aren't selling) after they've paid for them! In the end, it's best if prices remain unchanged once they have been publicised.

For some products pre-launch "offers" and "be the first to get offers" may be significantly lower, but then if the price takes a hike later - perhaps without warning - if the date of the increase isn't announced - one can lose interest altogether. I'm not sure that the marketeers always get things right - from anyone's point of view.