Broad/narrow-minded

[MrGongGong]

You may ask and tell that to the children/students you teach but a lot of us here are at the stage of life where we do know what we like and,

1: I'm not a teacher
2: That seems a bit of a sad way to think about music IMV

You seem to be assuming that i'm saying that people don't know, or that they like the "wrong" things, i'm not.

[Richard Tarleton]

Liking something can sometimes 'get in the way' of a deeper appreciation or understanding IMV

Perhaps there's a problem with the word "like". I don't like Picasso's Guernica, but that's not the point, I'm prepared to spend time with it. On the other hand there's stuff that I can't engage with at any meaningful level.....

[french frank]

Given this, 'broadminded' would seem to be an antonym of 'bigoted'.

Exactly.

As far as music goes, then, a broadminded person might not have to have a wide range of tastes, just be prepared to 'give it a go'. The result might be to uncover a new favourite or a new work to avoid.

I'm not sure that they need give it much of a 'go' (just allow others to do so with equanimity - 'tolerate' in that sense). In many contexts, experience - as Alpie suggests - is enough to allow one to judge how much further investigation is necessary.

It wasn't clear what Beefy had in mind when he said he would rather be considered a snob than narrow-minded. But it was that that triggered my thought about how broad tastes/narrow tastes are often equated with being broadminded/narrowminded. It is an obvious mistake, but it is a confusion which allows some people with broad tastes to give themselves a pat on the back for it.

It also led on to the point that, musically, what seem like 'narrow tastes' to one person - from their point of view - seem like very broad tastes to another; with 'broad tastes' to one person seeming like 'narrow tastes' to another. The news story struck me as interesting because the different styles of modern popular music were broken down into 'taste' styles, and I wondered how many 'taste' styles one could make of 'classical' music. Quite a lot, by the time each major genre was broken down by chronological style and sub-style, I should think.

[Mary Chambers]

1: I'm not a teacher
2: That seems a bit of a sad way to think about music IMV
.

Why? It seems fair enough for doversoul or anyone else to have preferences.

[MrGongGong]

Why? It seems fair enough for doversoul or anyone else to have preferences.

It's fine to have presences, to like things, to dislike things
But I, personally, think it's a bit sad to decide at some point in ones life that one has more or less 'worked out' what one likes, and to stop listening to things that fall outside that box.

If my listening to music is all in the "ooh, I love this" mode then I miss out on other things in music.
NOT that there's anything WRONG with listening in that way.
I guess what i'm saying is that there are many ways of listening and it would be a shame to limit oneself to a single one.
(Once again electroacoustic music theory has a lot to illuminate in this area, lots of things about "Listening strategies" on the internet)

[teamsaint]

I think that anyone who can say "what is rubbish to you may not be rubbish to me (or anyone else)" is very definitely NOT "narrow-minded", OGgy.

After a third of a century in the teaching profession, I've grown a very thick skin towards whatever epithets others chose to describe me: "snob" and "narrow-minded" would be rather endearing in comparison to some! The point is, I think, not to be prescriptive/proscriptive about what others enjoy listening to. I have very definite likes and dislikes, but share OGgy's attitude - if other people get solace, enjoyment and strength from something I hate, I feel that I'm the loser. I wouldn't welcome Aus Italien on a concert programme, but would listen in (in the hope that my tastes have caught up with the work) - same with a Verdi opera (only more so).



And then, just as I'm patting myself on the back for my broad-mindedness, the words "Andrew" "Webber" and "Lloyd" get into an orderly queue and I positively relish my snobbery!!

I would agree...until the words " Stephen" and " Ward " pop into my mind..............even though I have never heard a note of the music .
Which might bring a person back to Gonger's repeated question, " what is music for".

[Beef Oven!]

I'm obviously from a different planet! I never saw, still can't see, why anyone would confuse having a wide taste in music with being broadminded. I don't see why it's an obvious mistake at all.

Let me try to make myself clearer to you.

If I were ever to come across as a snob in music, and be so described, it would not bother me because the concept means nothing more he than a silly stereo-type and the accuser would be chewing more than they had bitten off (if I may put it that way 'round).

However, if I were described as being narrow-minded, musically speaking, I would be most unhappy because it would strike at the heart of what I believe is the the whole experience of enjoying music (in all the many ways possible) - being non-prejudiced, non-judgemental, flexible, curious, welcoming, tolerant and enjoying it!

I would give myself and anyone else a pat on the back if they approached music as per the foregoing, and a kick in the butt for anyone who thinks that having a wide taste in music is necessarily superior to having a narrower preference.

And I think there are a number of people in this forum who do not seem to approach music in this way (based on what they choose to say in here, about musics/works they appear not to like) and I think they are narrow-minded (which, before this thread, I thought was a lesser crime than being a bigot!).

Clear as mud!?

Exactly.


I'm not sure that they need give it much of a 'go' (just allow others to do so with equanimity - 'tolerate' in that sense). In many contexts, experience - as Alpie suggests - is enough to allow one to judge how much further investigation is necessary.

It wasn't clear what Beefy had in mind when he said he would rather be considered a snob than narrow-minded. But it was that that triggered my thought about how broad tastes/narrow tastes are often equated with being broadminded/narrowminded. It is an obvious mistake, but it is a confusion which allows some people with broad tastes to give themselves a pat on the back for it.

It also led on to the point that, musically, what seem like 'narrow tastes' to one person - from their point of view - seem like very broad tastes to another; with 'broad tastes' to one person seeming like 'narrow tastes' to another. The news story struck me as interesting because the different styles of modern popular music were broken down into 'taste' styles, and I wondered how many 'taste' styles one could make of 'classical' music. Quite a lot, by the time each major genre was broken down by chronological style and sub-style, I should think.

[french frank]

I'm obviously from a different planet! I never saw, still can't see, why anyone would confuse having a wide taste in music with being broadminded. I don't see why it's an obvious mistake at all.

So if anyone does confuse them they are obviously mistaken because the two are quite different.

But if you, nor anyone else, has ever come across such a confusion, it is presumably me who is confused. I apologise.

[jean]

I've looked at many dictionary definitions of 'broadminded' and commonly they fall into two parts: a willingness to engage with something or at least be tolerant of it, and a disinclination to be shocked or offended. Although this might create the right atmosphere for doing so, it seems there's no requirement that a broadminded person actually like something...

I'd only ever use the word in the second sense.

[Mary Chambers]

But I, personally, think it's a bit sad to decide at some point in ones life that one has more or less 'worked out' what one likes, and to stop listening to things that fall outside that box.

If my listening to music is all in the "ooh, I love this" mode then I miss out on other things in music.

I don't know about others, but I certainly haven't stopped listening to things that 'fall outside the box'. I will always go to concerts that have premieres, hoping that I may discover something worth following up.

Nor do I listen to the music I know I like thinking 'Ooh, I love this'. That's the Classic FM mindset (now who's being patronising?) and I don't share it.

On the other hand, I can't say I would listen to ALW, Elvis, Karl Jenkins or various others any more, hoping to find hidden depths.

[Pabmusic]

I'd only ever use the word in the second sense.

I wonder if that means you may not be broad-minded enough.

[doversoul1]

It's fine to have presences, to like things, to dislike things
But I, personally, think it's a bit sad to decide at some point in ones life that one has more or less 'worked out' what one likes, and to stop listening to things that fall outside that box.

If my listening to music is all in the "ooh, I love this" mode then I miss out on other things in music.
NOT that there's anything WRONG with listening in that way.
I guess what i'm saying is that there are many ways of listening and it would be a shame to limit oneself to a single one.
(Once again electroacoustic music theory has a lot to illuminate in this area, lots of things about "Listening strategies" on the internet)

You do assume an awful lot’
- Knowing what I/we like does not mean in the least that I have stopped listening anything else.
- There are a lot more to liking music than "ooh, I love this", as I assume you know.
- I/we have listened to music in many different ways before we get to where we are.
- You carry on with electro whatever. Many of us would find that a lot of it is saying what we know in different ways (that’s often the case of theories). That’s great in itself but I can do perfectly well without. It’s only one of infinite ways of listening to music.

[Roehre]

I don't know about others, but I certainly haven't stopped listening to things that 'fall outside the box'. I will always go to concerts that have premieres, hoping that I may discover something worth following up.

Nor do I listen to the music I know I like thinking 'Ooh, I love this'. That's the Classic FM mindset (now who's being patronising?) and I don't share it.

On the other hand, I can't say I would listen to ALW, Elvis, Karl Jenkins or various others any more, hoping to find hidden depths.

My personal approach to music.

I'm widely interested.
There are areas which I like and areas which I do less so. But the latter are definitely not avoided.
For me it's always a pleasure to discover and explore and to put things in perspective.

But whether that's broad-minded?

[cloughie]

Maybe the broadest minds belong to those with the biggest heads!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Maybe the broadest minds belong to those with the biggest heads!