Broad/narrow-minded

[MrGongGong]

I've just found this photo of Alpen and Drogo on their annual trip to Scarborough to hear the Spa Orchestra



Have a large one dudes

[french frank]

Why do you think that broad-minded is a weasel word? The meaning of broadminded need have nothing to do with narrow-minded people or with red-herrings like 'moral high ground'.

I did explain that in Msg 19. That may be what Alpie meant by, Dear me. Though I haven't conferred with him about it.

[Beef Oven!]

I did explain that in Msg 19. That may be what Alpie meant by, Dear me. Though I haven't conferred with him about it.

I was just wondering why he's limiting himself to childish comments about Birtwistle's music and being dismissive of the music that many of us are interested in. I was hoping that he might be able to explain a bit. And indeed your Msg 19 isn't much of an explanation. Not sure why you think 'broadminded' can only have negative connotations, when in fact it is meant positively.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... childish comments ...

[Beef Oven!]

Indeed. Many people enjoy the music of Birtwistle. Your comment about 'rather listen to a pneumatic drill' is childish and ignorant, IMV.

[Russ]

(post deleted, wrong thread)

[french frank]

Not sure why you think 'broadminded' can only have negative connotations, when in fact it is meant positively.

N-n-n-n-n-o, you misunderstand (my fault, I'm sure) - I think it has positive connotations which is why people tend to use it about either themselves or, very commonly, about people who hold the same views as them. The natural inference must be (even if it is not spelled out) that people who hold the opposite view are … not broadminded.

[Beef Oven!]

N-n-n-n-n-o, you misunderstand (my fault, I'm sure) - I think it has positive connotations which is why people tend to use it about either themselves or, very commonly, about people who hold the same views as them. The natural inference must be (even if it is not spelled out) that people who hold the opposite view are … not broadminded.

No, I don't misunderstand. I get what you are saying. I just don't agree with the emphasis that you apply. People who are not broad-minded don't have to be narrow-minded. They may simply not care, may not have thought about it or even don't understand. None of which makes them narrow-minded.

Being broad-minded, in the context of this discussion (concerning music), simply means (IMV) having an inclusive and non-judgemental view of music genres and cannot simply be applied to oneself or people who hold the 'same views' as oneself.

[french frank]

[Beefy, I shall remove our debate to the Ideas & Theory board later, to free this board for the discussion of: Prom 16: Late Night With … BBC Radio 1 (29.07.15) as an interesting story has cropped up this morning :-)

[Beef Oven!]

[Beefy, I shall remove our debate to the Ideas & Theory board later, to free this board for the discussion of: Prom 16: Late Night With … BBC Radio 1 (29.07.15) as an interesting story has cropped up this morning :-)

What's the interesting story?

[Old Grumpy]

"Broadminded" is a much abused term, rightly used when supporting tolerance of differing views, but wrongly used when tacitly accepting rubbish.

Ah, but what is rubbish to you may not be rubbish to me (or anyone else).

OG

[french frank]

What's the interesting story?

I will reveal (but this may be rather long - I may give up the will … :-)

First point, the (new) OP piqued my interest for purely linguistic reasons - the way people introduce nuances with a subtext, intentional or conditioned. So it should not have been on that original thread: I didn't realise it would spark controversy!

For example (the perils of online forums), when Alpie mentioned 'snob' you responded with 'narrow-minded' - which suggested a connection, in your mind. It simply sparked a thought in my mind that 'some people' (vague) appear to equate having wide musical tastes with being 'broadminded' (I would understand the word in much in the way that you did). But using the phrase in that approximate way ("broad tastes GOOD, narrow tastes BAD" because broadminded POSITIVE, narrowminded NEGATIVE) is wrong. It is not better to have broad musical tastes than narrow ones, and broadminded is a wrong use of the word because 'mind' is to do with reasoning and judgement, and taste is not.

But if one/anyone uses the word 'broadminded' (me) and 'narrowminded' (you) one is often suggesting that broad tastes are 'better' than narrow tastes.

But the news story (if it's still there!) threw up another point: yup, it's here . I don't want to denigrate the research, because the problem may be with the reporter I was struck by the fact that 'avant-garde jazz' was the only music that I wouldn't describe as 'popular music': R&B, soft rock, folk[?], punk, heavy metal. The story didn't mention classical music at all, though it did say 26 styles were analysed. Was one of them 'classical music'? or did it mention symphonic (classical, Romantic), chamber, art song, early polyphony, choral, opera, contemporary &c?

In other words, one person's view of having broad tastes may not be the same as another's. 'You lump all popular music together?' 'You lump all classical music together?' Never was De gustibus more applicable. And, yes, I have heard people claiming to like 'all kinds of music' without it even occurring to them to include classical music because it's beyond the reach of their radar.

As for car engines, that means nothing more to me than suck-squeeze-bang-blow. But no, I can't predict how other people are feeling either. I do hope the reporter left a lot unsaid …

[burning dog]

My very quick research on fans attitude to"Avant Garde Jazz"

John Coltrane Hard Bop 1959

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ7QTRzV9RM

Youtube comments

I listened to it half speed ...
most people i hear playing this fast play sixteenths....
One could never guess all this comes from two simple ii V I's....
...And 6 Keys.
I'd say about 280-300 bpm :D


John Coltrane Avant Garde 1966

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqyznfmsPuk

Youtube comments

soulful, even abandoned technical boldness.....
transitioned to a worldly space full of love...
have not heard much that was "higher"!.....
Oh Alice! Oh John!...

Doesn't really square with this

"In contrast those who score more highly on systemising tended to like music by heavy metal bands and more complex, avant-garde jazz."

I've never considered a prime ingredient of Avant Garde jazz being complexity

[doversoul1]

Will we be all broadminded enough to welcome this if it is included in the Proms?

http://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2015/jul/23/andre-rieu-cinema-music-record

Doesn’t the argument about being narrow/broadminded about music have a tendency to come up when it involves (or in defence of) certain types of music? How wide is a broad mind?

[Nick Armstrong]

Will we be all broadminded enough to welcome this if it is included in the Proms?

http://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2015/jul/23/andre-rieu-cinema-music-record

Only if the RAH seriously reinforce the ladies' and gents' conveniences, and provide sick-bags at every seat...