Clinging On...the middle class declines on Tuesday 3rd Feb

[Anna]

I also am perceiving that Brits and Americans may mean different things when they talk about class distinctions.

America doesn't have a class system like Britain because they've never had an aristocracy, in the US class is merely related to race and money. According to the author Stephen Liddell:
In the UK class was only ever partially related to money. Unlike in countries like the United States where money and star status meant individuals were considered to be at the top of society, here it was mostly due to family ancestry. Though not common, it was entirely possible for an Aristocratic family to be almost bankrupt whilst retaining their upper-class rating that middle class families with more money or assets could never hope to gain.

Overt displays of wealth were and to a degree still are seen as vulgar. True breeding meant one didn’t have to show off. As an example someone like Prince Charles is often seen in the country in old clothes that the average unemployed person would never dream of being seen out with.

[Don Petter]

Overt displays of wealth were and to a degree still are seen as vulgar. True breeding meant one didn’t have to show off. As an example someone like Prince Charles is often seen in the country in old clothes that the average unemployed person would never dream of being seen out with.

But then he's a very much not-average unemployed person.

[Beef Oven!]

and firepower....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31071922

(tasers)

I'm guessing you came out as elite. Am I right?

[teamsaint]

I'm guessing you came out as elite. Am I right?

Established Middle class which doesn't seem quite right.
However, no questions on important subjects like pets names, so that may have skewed it.

incidentally, those income brackets make no real sense. £25k to £50k? silly.

Did they have a category for you?

[MrGongGong]

Did they have a category for you?

[Beef Oven!]

Established Middle class which doesn't seem quite right.
However, no questions on important subjects like pets names, so that may have skewed it.

Answer honestly, the Inland Revenue aren't watching![

[Beef Oven!]

Where did you come out in the survey, MrGG?

[teamsaint]

Answer honestly, the Inland Revenue aren't watching![

Course they are, I know, I used to be one of them !!


I notice " Sales Professionals" wasn't one of the groups you could claim to know socially....or ex tax man.....no wonder I usually end up sitting on my own at concerts !!

Now, about those pet names........I was thinking " Ginastera" or " Mosolov" if we get a new cat.....would that push me up the rankings?

[Serial_Apologist]

America doesn't have a class system like Britain because they've never had an aristocracy, in the US class is merely related to race and money. According to the author Stephen Liddell:
In the UK class was only ever partially related to money. Unlike in countries like the United States where money and star status meant individuals were considered to be at the top of society, here it was mostly due to family ancestry. Though not common, it was entirely possible for an Aristocratic family to be almost bankrupt whilst retaining their upper-class rating that middle class families with more money or assets could never hope to gain.

Overt displays of wealth were and to a degree still are seen as vulgar. True breeding meant one didn’t have to show off. As an example someone like Prince Charles is often seen in the country in old clothes that the average unemployed person would never dream of being seen out with.

In any case, the pre-eminence of money makes the bourgeoisie much more important in terms of class definition throughout the "developed world" than the aristocracy. The latter has had little bearing on politics since the 1920s, becoming mostly One Nation Tories after World War II, apart from those parts of it that either became Soviet spies or hob-nobbed with sections of the officer caste in planning for military dictatorship during the Wilson government.

[ardcarp]

I wonder if it is cool to aspire to be 'middle class' any more? If not, does that mean middle class values are seen as:

-plain old fashioned
-a burden (taking the trouble to be well-educated, well-read, literate, etc)
-a handicap (within a chosen social or friendship group)
-something to be rejected for strongly held idealistic or political reasons

Presumably at one time it was cool. My maternal grandfather was a foreman toolmaker and I guess he was proud to be working class and was probably a strong union man. My paternal great-grandfather was described on his death certificate as 'itinerant knife grinder' despite a family tale he was married to a disinherited Cornish 'Lady' (unlikely, IMO). So succeeding generations, possibly with the help of the Grammar School system, were wittingly or unwittingly social climbers...resulting in my being (according to the test) ESTABLISHED middle class. Established? Moi?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I get a pain in the back of my neck.

[french frank]

...resulting in my being (according to the test) ESTABLISHED middle class. Established? Moi?

I'm still bemused as to what makes me TWC. It said 'cultural tastes' - but I put down opera and classical music. I think non involvement in social media has become a social marker (not into the internet, no computer skills &c &c), but I'm not sure that loathing of Facebook and Twitter would be the same (perhaps I should have said yes to that, on the grounds that I use an online forum - albeit for principally 'business' reasons )

Maybe I'll have another go and see if I can raise my status a little: but as Marcellina said Le Nozze di Figaro: "L'argent fait tout."

Add: Nope, didn't do any better. One of the markers was 'mix socially with people similar to themselves', even though I had down secretary, university lecturer, scientist and call-centre worker. I wonder what sort of people are 'similar' to me?

[Mary Chambers]

I'm still bemused as to what makes me TWC

It said I was TWC as well, which isn't where I'd have put myself. I decided to guess what was putting me in that bracket, and alter it to see what happened. My retirement income is low (though my assets are high), so I upped it a bit. I live in a part of the country where house values are not high, so I altered that. I was suddenly Elite!

I'd have thought I was middle middle class.

[Dave2002]

What are the possible outcomes?

[french frank]

It said I was TWC as well, which isn't where I'd have put myself. I decided to guess what was putting me in that bracket, and alter it to see what happened. My retirement income is low (though my assets are high), so I upped it a bit. I live in a part of the country where house values are not high, so I altered that. I was suddenly Elite!

I'd have thought I was middle middle class.

Bingo! I felt that was the sole important point - which makes no allowance for people being retired and on (relatively) low incomes - but also having lower outgoings (mortgages, children to support &c).