Employment and Its Discontents

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  • richardfinegold
    Full Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 7656

    Employment and Its Discontents

    I thought I would start a spinoff thread from the one that Alpie began with his retirement announcement. That one became a mix of people wishing Alpie good luck and others voicing their frustrations--or lack of--in their employment and how that effects their lives, and their was some musings on the value of labor in a capitalistic society. I was hoping that part of the discussion may gain some legs here and not taint the good wishes to Alpie.
    I will turn 57 in a few weeks. I am a Physician, until very lately I was a Primary Care Physician. I was self employed, and this became an increasingly untenable position. Less than 1/3 of the Physicians in the States now own their own Practices and most work for some sort of Corporate Interest, as I now do.
    A few years ago I was diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, on a routine Lab test. My condition is at present stable and I am in fact without symptoms. On the other hand, at present there is no treatment available to me that will prevent the condition from turning into a disease. Having cared for patients with this condition that eventually became symptomatic and expired from it, I decided that my 90 hour work week, with 24 hour availability, daily hospital rounds being exposed to every germ conceivable, had to change in order to maximize my prognosis.
    I was certified in Weight Loss Medicine and made a deal to sell my Practice to a For Profit Hospital Chain, in exchange for helping them run a Medical Weight Loss Program. I no longer carry a pager or have to answer calls at night, and essentially now work a 40 hour work week. My contract is for 3 year years and the Administrators of this Soulless Corporation have changed 3 times in my 12 months of employment. Learning to navigate this Corporate minefield has been an interesting experience. I have a mission within my job that has been difficult to bring off because I keep having to reexplain myself to new people, all of whom are business oriented and don't know the first thing about Patient Care. So my greatest anxiety is where this will end, but my fallback position is to go back to being a Primary Care Physician and working out the string until I hit 65.
    Someone made a comment on the earlier thread that being self employed must be a great source of satisfaction. I can assure you that it has another side. Having to make a payroll, manage a retirement plan, deal with all of the rapacious vendors, and employee issues was not something that I bargained for and I don't miss it.
    i truly wish that I could retire now, but I have had 3 children, two of whom are still floundering and need support, so it isn't an option.
    One thing I have learned is that if you don't enjoy your job, it is hard to enjoy your life. Regrettably, we spend more time with our coworkers than with our families. And then in a corporate environment there are the careerists that don't mind who they are stepping on to advance their own interests.
    I would appreciate hearing more about people's working lives, past or present. Whether we like it or not, they do to an extent wind up partly defining us.
  • Petrushka
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 12239

    #2
    Thanks for sharing this with us and best wishes for your future.

    I've long pondered on the world of work, what it means and why we do it and still can't come up with a definitive answer. I honestly had no idea what I wanted to do when I left school at the age of 15 in 1969 the same week that saw the Moon landing. After a few years at college I more or less blundered into a job in debt collection and have been doing it with various employers since 1974. I still enjoy the job after 40 years so whatever gripes I have are not directed that way. No, the real problem lies with management and colleagues many of whom have been borderline psychopaths.

    As teamsaint said on the other thread, some of what I've seen managers do, both to me and other people, deserves a prison sentence with lives wrecked and companies laid waste. As I've got older, I've derived some amusement in seeing management re-invent the wheel, trying out things we did 30 years ago and they didn't work then either.

    Another thing I've found as I reach 60 is that you stop caring what you say because they can't touch you anymore. It took a while for this particular penny to drop but I found myself simply doing it without thought and it's intensely liberating. At 60 I begrudge the fact that after 40 years of the daily grind, treadmill existence, disillusionment and fatigue, self-deception and compromise I still have to wait another 4 years + before I can say goodbye to all that and finally live my life as I wish.

    Or can I? Who knows what health issues I will have at 65? How many times have I seen people retire at 65 and drop dead from boredom in a few months?

    There has to be work otherwise the planet couldn't function but there has to be some alternative to the daily grind, treadmill existence........
    "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

    Comment

    • Richard Tarleton

      #3
      Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
      One thing I have learned is that if you don't enjoy your job, it is hard to enjoy your life.
      This is so true Richard. I've been extremely fortunate in having been able to do a job for most of my working life that arose directly from my interest in wildlife. Like Petrushka I had no clear idea of what I wanted to do (in my case at university), and it took a few years for the penny to drop - resulting in a drastic change of course. Life began again at 30!

      But I think a sort of convergent evolution operates in the world of work - features of corporate life which I once thought only applied to people who worked in offices started to creep into every branch of looking after the countryside. I was fortunate to survive a number of major "restructurings" each of which naturally resulted in lots of redundancies, and new faces. In latter years I stopped even trying to remember the names of new managers and advisors until they'd been around for a couple of years at least. I had to reapply for my job once, but that was largely a technicality - no other candidates, and my pension was not interrupted. Another thing that stood me in good stead was to learn a new skill from time to time which nobody else understood or could be bothered to learn, thus making oneself indispensable.

      The other thing that happens in so many walks of life is that you graduate from doing what you signed up for to managing other people who are doing it. Bertrand Russell said
      Work is of two kinds. The first involves altering the position of matter relative to the earth's surface; the second consists of telling other people to do so. The first is disagreeable and badly paid; the other is agreeable and well paid.
      For many jobs the reverse is true: in (for example) medicine, teaching, a great many crafts and skilled trades, and what I did, it's the job itself that carries the satisfaction: it's management, with all the stress, that is disagreeable, if better paid. My career was studded with management courses; the only one I can remember anything useful from was one I went on about 30 years ago, called "Skills of Supervision - Part ll" . The most recent was run by someone who had also run courses for Blair's cabinet office - I can remember precisely nothing about that one.

      Pet says:
      Another thing I've found as I reach 60 is that you stop caring what you say because they can't touch you anymore. It took a while for this particular penny to drop but I found myself simply doing it without thought and it's intensely liberating.
      I assure you this is even more true of retirement I suppose the worst they could do in Pet's case is to offer a redundancy package which he would of course grab. The one thing I'd say about your job Pet is that it has funded an enviable concert-going career - there are drawbacks for the classical music lover living a very long way from a concert hall!

      Comment

      • Petrushka
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 12239

        #4
        Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
        The one thing I'd say about your job Pet is that it has funded an enviable concert-going career - there are drawbacks for the classical music lover living a very long way from a concert hall!
        I've never, not even for one single solitary moment, had an ounce of ambition and everything else that I do matters more to me than anything at work. Moreover, it is essential to have a hobby or interest that keeps you sane in times of stress. I've been lucky in never marrying and never having a mortgage so that enviable concert life over the past 40 years or so has been very much funded by my job so it hasn't entirely been a waste of time! You don't make conscious decisions about such things, it's all down to the roll of the dice.
        "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

        Comment

        • teamsaint
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 25195

          #5
          One of the areas that interests me is the whole question of what is modern work like. By which I suppose I mean , " what is Modern White Collar work like" , since I guess trades have tended to change incrementally rather than fundamentally.

          When I was studying A level economics, all the talk was of how technology and increased productivity would lead to a leisure society, permanent 3 day week working and so on. Of course that failed to take into account the effects of globalisation, increasingly easy travel to enable so many people to work far from their birth place and so on.
          That said, I'm pretty certain that the current state of affairs, where people in wealthy countries are facing the prospect of working to age 70, on static ( at best ) wages, to pay huge mortgages (the blissfully mortgage free Petruska excepted), is not just bad luck. This situation has been engineered for the economic and social advantage of a small group.

          One of the keys to understanding this is pressure. People have, IMO, a tendency to make poor decisions when under pressure. This applies to bosses and their Orwellian permanent restructurings, or us individually, when, for example, the prospect of the mortgage not getting paid appears, or social pressures feel strong, or whatever. So exerting that pressure, (ie by governments telling us we HAVE to work longer or the country will go bust, or our pension will be inadequate), is an important tool for those who want to shape the world. Sadly then, what work is like, tends to be shaped by others, and not by us.
          Pet's description of the workplace rings true, and reflects the idea that workplaces are made in the image of those who have done " well" in them,EG education has a tendency to reflect Ofsted inspectors' and head teachers' views of the world. The office is made in the image of the career ladder promotion seeker, not the diligent , talented, but unambitious.

          My first job was at Calor Gas, for a year. At calor, I was told, over the morning bacon and black pudding rolls in the canteen, that the average Calor pension was drawn for 9 months. !!!! Draw your own conclusions.

          Just to be positive, sort of, my own working life took a rather odd turn a long time ago. Already in a decent career in tax, I got offered an interesting opportunity in sales, and in those days my civil service position was held open for 3 years, which seems unbelievable now. Now I never thought I could give things away, much less sell them, yet against what I thought were the odds, I have made a living over more than 25 years, which if nothing else shows that we can sometimes do things we never dreamed we could !

          Sadly, along the way, I have seen some atrocious management, and some awful waste of talent, but perhaps have learned some lessons to pass on to those who will listen.


          By the by, when I was self employed, for 20 years, I was able to share work with TOH, and was thus able to see my kids grow up, which is something I treasure dearly.

          Pet: there should be a club for us "unambitious " types..... or at least a place to discuss what ambition is, and its effects !
          Last edited by teamsaint; 20-12-14, 12:58.
          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

          I am not a number, I am a free man.

          Comment

          • Petrushka
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 12239

            #6
            Ambition is like jealousy: corrosive and meaningless. What is so striking about the office environment is how the same types inhabit them no matter where you work. There is always - always - the colleague or manager who gets a kick out of making other people's lives a misery. Frequently a bully and showing sociopathic tendencies it only needs one such in the office to create a poisonous atmosphere.

            Come June 2019 I won't be missing any of that.

            Unambitious types are those who have a life out the office.
            Last edited by Petrushka; 20-12-14, 18:48.
            "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

            Comment

            • Beef Oven!
              Ex-member
              • Sep 2013
              • 18147

              #7
              Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
              Ambition is like jealousy: corrosive and meaningless. What is so striking about the office environment is how the same types inhabit them no matter where you work. There is always - always - the colleague or manager who gets a kick out of making other people's lives a misery. Frequently a bully and showing sociopathic tendencies it only needs one such in the office to create a poisonous atmosphere.

              Come June 3019 I won't be missing any of that.




              Unambitious types are those who have a life out the office.
              That's quite ambitious!!!!

              Comment

              • Don Petter

                #8
                I read the title as 'Employment and IT's Discontents', and indeed, in my case employment and IT were one and the same. (Although it wasn't called that when I first got involved with computers in 1965.)

                Looking back, I have been broadly content with my working life, as witnessed by the successive reasons for my changing employment, which were: Employer moving to an area that I didn't want to, same again, made redundant, company folded, made redundant, same again. In other words none of the moves were initiated by me.

                Where I was extremely lucky (though not without several intervening months on the jam roll) was in finding employment again at increasingly later ages. After I was first made redundant, out of the blue, with twenty five years in the industry and eighteen in the company, I had to seek new employment at the ages of 51, 54, 56 and 63, which proved progressively more difficult. Many letters were written, often after my working through the yellow pages, but opportunities to gain a meeting and put ones case in person were virtually non-existent.

                The first two re-employment successes hung on lucky coincidences, and by the last (at least by then I was within two years of the 'finishing post') I gave up trying sell my skills and found that Tesco, at least, weren't ageist and were happy to let me drive and stack shelves!

                Phew! So it all worked out in the end, but it so nearly might not have done. Certainly now, when I catch a sight of pettifogging office life through some business window, I realise that I could never go back to that. Luckily, I don't have to!

                Comment

                • richardfinegold
                  Full Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 7656

                  #9
                  One of the things that I find most off putting about our lives is the sameness factor, what Pet I believe is labeling the treadmill. As I progressed through High School, College, Medical School and then the 3 years of my Medical Residency, I was learning information at an incredible pace, and being Mentally challenged constantly. Then at age 30 I settled into a Routine, which I found interesting and fulfilling for about 5 years. After that, the realization came that "This is it?" Yes, I was helping people, and that was the satisfying part, and occasionally there was some professional stimulation, but I was overworked, undervalued, and no longer stimulated.
                  I tried taking solace in my family, my children and my hobbies (such as listening to music) but as I observed earlier and Richard Tarleton seconded, if the job isn't satisfying, true happiness remains elusive. And unlike Pet I had the killer mortgage and the three young children on my shoulders. I would have loved to been able to study some completely unrelated field and been revived , but it would have been financially impossible. At that time realizing that this was my life for the next 30 years or so felt quite oppressive and I had a Psychological midlife crisis before I even hit mid life.
                  I think that everyone should be allowed to change jobs every decade or so, if they desire. I would wager the money saved on treating Chemical Dependency and other Mental Health issues that arise from Professional ennui could be used to fund the career changes, and I think the practical knowledge that people bring to a new field when they move from an old one would improve their productivity in the new field. Of course this will never happen but if I was Tsar of the Universe...

                  Comment

                  • MrGongGong
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 18357

                    #10
                    Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
                    I think that everyone should be allowed to change jobs every decade or so, if they desire.
                    Most people in the UK can do this.
                    Whether they choose to or not is another matter altogether.

                    What often strikes me is how unhappy so many people are even when they have all the things that they thought would bring the opposite.
                    Stable jobs, mortgages for nice houses, nice cars etc

                    Comment

                    • Beef Oven!
                      Ex-member
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 18147

                      #11
                      Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                      What often strikes me is how unhappy so many people are even when they have all the things that they thought would bring the opposite.
                      Stable jobs, mortgages for nice houses, nice cars etc

                      The trick is MrGG, is to mix the salary, girls & cars, houses etc with Can, electroacoustic music, good play-back equipment and whisky How can't one be happy!!!???

                      No pleasin' some people

                      People, get some Hawkwind in yer life!!

                      Comment

                      • richardfinegold
                        Full Member
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 7656

                        #12
                        Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                        Most people in the UK can do this.
                        Whether they choose to or not is another matter altogether.

                        What often strikes me is how unhappy so many people are even when they have all the things that they thought would bring the opposite.
                        Stable jobs, mortgages for nice houses, nice cars etc
                        I guess I should have said most people should be allowed to change careers, not jobs. Having to learn a whole new field can be a life saver if is done by choice and not necessity. As for the rest of it, I suppose that it probably sounds churlish to complain when one has reached the goals they originally aspired to and then feels discontent. Certainly that was what my ex wife used to tell me.

                        Comment

                        • Petrushka
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 12239

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                          That's quite ambitious!!!!
                          Woops! Typo now corrected!
                          "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

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