Population and the Planet

[MrGongGong]

Can either location support itself, or does one or other depend on importing food, fuel and goods from elsewhere? As long as it's possible to rely on other areas being less populated, there'll be no squealing. But later, I should say it's inevitable.

Not being able to 'support itself' is (and i'm not a geographer) surely one measure of how 'developed' a place is?
The SE of the UK could easily 'support itself' but not if folks want to eat exotic vegetables or live in houses heated by imported gas etc etc

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Not being able to 'support itself' is (and i'm not a geographer) surely one measure of how 'developed' a place is?
The SE of the UK could easily 'support itself' but not if folks want to eat exotic vegetables or live in houses heated by imported gas etc etc

Er... no. Insufficient agricultural land unless everyone became vegans. Power? I don't think so. Raw materials?

[Roehre]

Feeding livestock ten times as much protein as they yield makes no sense at all.

Unless the protein is not available to humans otherwise, like the pampas in Argentine or otherwise not agriculturally usable but ecologically uninteresting areas.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Unless the protein is not available to humans otherwise, like the pampas in Argentine or otherwise not agriculturally usable but ecologically uninteresting areas.

That's a very reasonable observation. In such areas, assuming that there really is no alternative, it would seem to be OK if the livestock feeds on the grassland and not from imported fodder grown in cleared Brazilian rain forest.

[Pabmusic]

I think you may have noticed that this was not an article written by a scientist, Pabmusic, but by a satirical comedian who uses exaggeration for effect...

This might more accurately be worded "I think you may not have noticed..."

[MrGongGong]

Er... no. Insufficient agricultural land unless everyone became vegans. Power? I don't think so. Raw materials?

Er Yes

But people don't want to live in the way that would make it possible.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Er Yes

But people don't want to live in the way that would make it possible.

OK. Let's (for the sake of argument) say it might be possible for London and the Home Counties (or any heavily populated region) to be self-sufficient by everyone living underground, becoming vegan and cycling everywhere. You still have to find a humane way to prevent further population growth, otherwise the ultra-austerity method will not be sustainable.

[MrGongGong]

OK. Let's (for the sake of argument) say it might be possible for London and the Home Counties (or any heavily populated region) to be self-sufficient by everyone living underground, becoming vegan and cycling everywhere. You still have to find a humane way to prevent further population growth, otherwise the ultra-austerity method will not be sustainable.

Surely veganism is an effective contraceptive strategy? (but not as good as being a viola player )

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Surely veganism is an effective contraceptive strategy? (but not as good as being a viola player )

If only that were true. Rabbits are vegans.

On the other hand, if it were true, I'd be the first to advocate veganism.

[ahinton]

Surely veganism is an effective contraceptive strategy? (but not as good as being a viola player )

I think that if the astonishing violist Levine Andrade was a member here he might have something to say about that! By the way, a record producer whom I know once described Levine as the best viola joke of all - a violist who plays beautifully and in tune all the time...

[ahinton]

OK. Let's (for the sake of argument) say it might be possible for London and the Home Counties (or any heavily populated region) to be self-sufficient by everyone living underground, becoming vegan and cycling everywhere. You still have to find a humane way to prevent further population growth, otherwise the ultra-austerity method will not be sustainable.

It's the notion of underground cycling here that calls doubts to my mind...

[Dave2002]

And the world population increase is, as I suggested previously, more to do with greater longevity and greatly reduced infant mortality in developing countries than increasing birthrate. You must admit there is a certain irony in someone flying all over the world several times, in the process leaving a huge carbon footprint, and then saying that people whose consumption is infinitely smaller are having too many children for the world's resources.

I had to read this a few times to check what was written. The crucial word is developing, rather than developed.

Two of the biggest countries are China and India. In the case of China population increase was, I believe, deliberately encouraged by politicians until eventually someone noticed that it wasn't a good idea and seemingly draconian policies on being allowed to have children were put in place. This was partly for strategic reasons - a rather mad notion that having more people would somehow strengthen the country against possible aggressors - maybe India.

In the case of India, populaton control measures, such as free birth control just haven't been popular, or so I've heard. There may be (have been) policy "guidelines" which the existing population simply ignores/d.

It's curious how this thread has developed from a starting point about someone who was involved for a while with Gavin Maxwell. Are we allowed to discuss this rather important issue (population)? It seems to be a bit political

[aeolium]

It's curious how this thread has developed from a starting point about someone who was involved for a while with Gavin Maxwell. Are we allowed to discuss this rather important issue (population)? It seems to be a bit political

I think it developed out of a comment I made - a speculation, really - about some naturalists appearing to be somewhat misanthropic and having a real preference for wildlife over humanity (and I did ask for this tangential idea to be hived off to a separate thread - the original thread on Maxwell I think remained). Perhaps it shows how threads can have a life of their own, and also how difficult it is to separate politics from almost any human activity.