Ukraine

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  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 30300

    Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
    This tragic "exercise" seems to be just a very cynical land grab.
    This exercise is a brutal land grab.
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

    Comment

    • Dave2002
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 18021

      Originally posted by soileduk View Post
      I don’t really know how to react to this.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/pevchikh/...19344710311937
      Clearly fake Western propaganda!

      Comment

      • Dave2002
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 18021

        Originally posted by french frank View Post
        This exercise is a brutal land grab.
        Yes - we can add a lot of other adjectives too. Sadly!

        Comment

        • Serial_Apologist
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 37689

          Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
          Yes - we can add a lot of other adjectives too. Sadly!
          It realy would help, though, for the likes of Lyn Truss to keep her nose out of it and let the Ukrainians determine how much they are prepared to negotiate away parts of their country in the interests of peace, if any.

          Comment

          • teamsaint
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 25209

            Originally posted by french frank View Post
            This exercise is a brutal land grab.
            Land and resource grabs in general get way too little publicity. There is a lot of it going on, one way or another.
            Understanding what drives them is important.
            I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

            I am not a number, I am a free man.

            Comment

            • french frank
              Administrator/Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 30300

              Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
              Understanding what drives them is important.
              In the case of Ukraine, various analysts have tried to get to Putin's psychology. The pattern seems to show it as no more than nationalism and his grudge over the dissolution of the Soviet Union. I don't think Russia need Ukraine's resources.
              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

              Comment

              • Joseph K
                Banned
                • Oct 2017
                • 7765

                Originally posted by french frank View Post
                In the case of Ukraine, various analysts have tried to get to Putin's psychology. The pattern seems to show it as no more than nationalism and his grudge over the dissolution of the Soviet Union. I don't think Russia need Ukraine's resources.
                Regarding resources, I recall recently reading somewhere that not that long ago under Ukraine's share of the Black Sea there had recently been discovered a large source of gas that would have ended Western dependency on Russian gas.

                Just remembered the source of this - 'Price Wars' by Rupert Russell.

                Comment

                • muzzer
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2013
                  • 1192

                  I’ve recently started reading Red Famine by Anne Applebaum, as I feel I need to be far better informed about why what is happening is happening, but it’s a depressing tale.

                  Comment

                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30300

                    Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                    Regarding resources, I recall recently reading somewhere that not that long ago under Ukraine's share of the Black Sea there had recently been discovered a large source of gas that would have ended Western dependency on Russian gas.

                    Just remembered the source of this - 'Price Wars' by Rupert Russell.
                    Interesting. Could well be true but in that case it still wouldn't be the case of Russia needing the resource itself, just protecting its own. Prima facie there's no reason why the West would prefer Ukrainian gas to Russian gas - if Russia were still pursuing the friendly policy vis-à-vis the West which Putin himself was doing 20 years ago.
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • Frances_iom
                      Full Member
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 2413

                      Originally posted by muzzer View Post
                      I’ve recently started reading Red Famine by Anne Applebaum, as I feel I need to be far better informed about why what is happening is happening, but it’s a depressing tale.
                      in the Nasty Imperialist table Russia and Belgium vie for top dog, Russia probably wins as killing more - both well ahead of Great Britain

                      Comment

                      • Joseph K
                        Banned
                        • Oct 2017
                        • 7765

                        Originally posted by french frank View Post
                        Prima facie there's no reason why the West would prefer Ukrainian gas to Russian gas - if Russia were still pursuing the friendly policy vis-à-vis the West which Putin himself was doing 20 years ago.
                        Not if Ukraine could offer it cheaper? It would be competition.

                        Comment

                        • french frank
                          Administrator/Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 30300

                          Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                          Not if Ukraine could offer it cheaper? It would be competition.
                          That's true, but a lot of other countries are in competition. There is global price regulation, isn't there? I think the repetitive behaviour in Chechnya and Georgia indictates political aims.Why Putin turned from rapprochement with the west to suggesting the west wants to attack Russia I can't imagine. If he takes over Ukraine he will create a long border with Nato countries which is what he says he doesn't want.
                          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                          Comment

                          • Serial_Apologist
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 37689

                            How many others are as sickened as me by Boris Johnson's milking of Ukraine to boost his party's waning electoral prospects on Thursday and self-seeking one-upmanship on the world reputation stage? I feel an additional cause for sorrow for the people of Ukraine being subjected to Churchillian gestures bearing no weight of the experience of this man's record of insincerity and mendacity at home.

                            Comment

                            • Dave2002
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 18021

                              Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                              How many others are as sickened as me by Boris Johnson's milking of Ukraine to boost his party's waning electoral prospects on Thursday and self-seeking one-upmanship on the world reputation stage? I feel an additional cause for sorrow for the people of Ukraine being subjected to Churchillian gestures bearing no weight of the experience of this man's record of insincerity and mendacity at home.
                              Absolutely. See the recent Private Eye cover.

                              Comment

                              • french frank
                                Administrator/Moderator
                                • Feb 2007
                                • 30300

                                Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                                How many others are as sickened as me by Boris Johnson's milking of Ukraine to boost his party's waning electoral prospects on Thursday and self-seeking one-upmanship on the world reputation stage? I feel an additional cause for sorrow for the people of Ukraine being subjected to Churchillian gestures bearing no weight of the experience of this man's record of insincerity and mendacity at home.
                                Infuriating. Tha Falklands were supposed to have saved Thatcher's skin; let's hope the British public see through Boris Churchill's amateur dramatics.
                                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                                Comment

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