BaL 6.03.21 - Debussy: Études pour piano

[visualnickmos]

I seem to have opened a family-size can of worms here just by asking why Mitsuko Uchida's recording of these pieces seems to be assumed to be head and shoulders better than any others and getting the answer that it might be just because the critics say so. Which seems to me a symptom of the undue influence critics have had. There used to be a time when I enjoyed reading record and CD reviews, even if I might often find them annoying for one reason or another, but these days they don't interest me at all, and I think the main reason is that I don't think I need them. Others clearly differ in this, and nobody is right or wrong.

Also my view, and to a lesser extent, my experience.

[visualnickmos]

... I think that many of us listen with interest to Building a Library - but often find that it is not necessarily the critic's "winner" which clicks with us, but one of the other performances discussed and discarded. It is the opportunity of sampling half-a-dozen interpretations which is of interest rather than a critic's individual take.

That's very often my conclusion, too. Also - there have been times when a reviewer has praised this or that version, for a number of reasons, which are often the reasons that turn me off! Or the reverse, 'negative' points, that have been the very aspects that I relish! Can't please everyone!

[jayne lee wilson]

... I think that many of us listen with interest to Building a Library - but often find that it is not necessarily the critic's "winner" which clicks with us, but one of the other performances discussed and discarded. It is the opportunity of sampling half-a-dozen interpretations which is of interest rather than a critic's individual take.


.

True of most Gramophone reviews too, in the sense that you followed up the listed comparisons at the end of the piece, read those as well, and sometimes bought them.
But now you listen to them on your streaming service instead. When I started listening to Record Review, it was like an on-air version of that. Of course you sometimes had different conclusions. Why wouldn't you? Classical obsessives are very discriminating and rarely slavish. (Would you like me to list all the versions of the Debussy Etudes that Gramophone has discussed and recommended over the last few decades? Pity Michelangeli never did them.)

Shame that so much focus here is on "reviews" as such.
There has always been far more to Music Magazines, with their features and surveys and discussions....
The history of response to post-war New Music or HIPPs and original instruments, can be traced in the Gramophone Archive back to the 50s, and very fascinating (and largely openminded, curious, welcoming and positive) it is. A degree of humility before the unknown.
Very different from the wider world.

But if you don't read it or delve among its decades, you don't know, and go on making false assumptions about readers and writers and their continuous, historically and personally complex interreaction.
Not to mention missing out on serendipity, and the Literary Pleasures on offer. Nothing like some eloquent, insightful or witty prose to brighten your day, or discovering things you didn't know you wanted...

Sun's out..... Hungry Cats and Birds........Garden beckons.....

[cloughie]

That's very often my conclusion, too. Also - there have been times when a reviewer has praised this or that version, for a number of reasons, which are often the reasons that turn me off! Or the reverse, 'negative' points, that have been the very aspects that I relish! Can't please everyone!

I think that a good way of selling record to me is a reviewer say how wayward or wiful it is. My reaction is often ‘I’ll hVe some of that!’ A good example many years ago was the Ahronovich Tchaik Manfred Sym.
As I mentioned earlier, I find it odd is that Uchida achieved seemingly the best by far, in many reviewers ears, recording of the Debussy Etudes but she has not recorded any other Debussy or for that matter any French music.

[Beresford]

As I mentioned earlier, I find it odd is that Uchida achieved seemingly the best by far, in many reviewers ears, recording of the Debussy Etudes but she has not recorded any other Debussy or for that matter any French music.

Maybe she doesn't do - or like - the playfulness & charm required in other Debussy piano music; she was brought up in diplomatic circles in Germany.

On Youtube there is an interesting 20 minute video of her talking about interpretation of the Debussy Etudes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYbgaPNjG3k

[visualnickmos]

I think that a good way of selling record to me is a reviewer say how wayward or wiful it is. My reaction is often ‘I’ll hVe some of that!’ A good example many years ago was the Ahronovich Tchaik Manfred Sym.
As I mentioned earlier, I find it odd is that Uchida achieved seemingly the best by far, in many reviewers ears, recording of the Debussy Etudes but she has not recorded any other Debussy or for that matter any French music.

That is a rather splendid recording - until the organ comes in - or rather, almost doesn't. On my redording, it is barely (if at all) audible, compared to my other recordings of this work. It seems to be indistinguishable from the orchestra..... what do you feel about it? Am I missing something, here...?
Aronovitch/Tamas Vasary are gret in the Rachmaninov piano concertos (also DG)

[rauschwerk]

That is a rather splendid recording - until the organ comes in - or rather, almost doesn't. On my redording, it is barely (if at all) audible, compared to my other recordings of this work. It seems to be indistinguishable from the orchestra..... what do you feel about it? Am I missing something, here...?

The composer actually specifies a harmonium here. It's marked ff grand jeu but clearly if an organ is used it's not meant to lift the roof off.

[visualnickmos]

Many thanks for sharing that knowledge. The difference between an expert, and someone like me. I can now continue to enjoy the recording in question, with complete satisfaction.

[jayne lee wilson]

By chance I came across Bryce Morrison’s G-collection survey of the Debussy Etudes… (G., 1/2005…).

Uchida was his personal choice, but in true Interpetations-on-Record tradition he offered a generous shortlist of alternatives - Bavouzet, Fergus-Thompson, Gieseking, Thibaudet, Paul Jacobs…..Aimard was highly praised too, as a sort of polar opposite to Uchida.
Also individual studies recorded by Horowitz and Van Cliburn, and many less familiar names on the longlist to seek out and stream.

Excellent piece covering almost 70 years of recordings, going into great and precise detail about the music itself, its earliest French and other performance traditions and interpretive approaches. So seek it out if you can, either online or among your shelved back issues.…

[cloughie]

The composer actually specifies a harmonium here. It's marked ff grand jeu but clearly if an organ is used it's not meant to lift the roof off.

Tchaik was quite keen on they harmoniums - Went into overdrive on Suite 2 which was only a few Opi before Manfred!

[richardfinegold]

Many thanks for sharing that knowledge. The difference between an expert, and someone like me. I can now continue to enjoy the recording in question, with complete satisfaction.

I never realized that either. My first recording of Manfred was conducted by Svetlanov, and when the Organ appears it blows the roof off. So now that is my expectation...
Regarding the Debussy Etudes, I had the Paul Jacobs lp, and my only digital version is Frankl on Vox. Although I like a few of the Etudes and frequently listen to Debussy other Piano Music I ‘ve never appreciated the work enough to collect multiple versions

[Bryn]

I have developed something of an allergy to Uchida as a result of my listening experiences with her Schubert and Mozart sonata surveys on disc. Perhaps her Debussy Etudes would restore my previous admiration for her playing, but I'm in no hurry to find out.

I did, however, find out and was suitably impressed. Glad to say, I managed to grab the EMI SACD transfers of the Gieseking Debussy piano works while they were generally available.

[Bryn]

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?2077-Debussy-s-Etudes&p=837160#post837160

[Belgrove]

I enjoyed this BAL and found Ian Burnside’s insights illuminating. He gave AMG’s interjections all the attention they deserved. I had listened blind to all the versions in my collection in preparation for this, and preferred Bavouzet to all others. Burnside crystallised the reasons why, an effervescent performance rather than a study.

[Alison]

I enjoyed this BAL and found Ian Burnside’s insights illuminating. He gave AMG’s interjections all the attention they deserved. I had listened blind to all the versions in my collection in preparation for this, and preferred Bavouzet to all others. Burnside crystallised the reasons why, an effervescent performance rather than a study.

Not much response: uncontroversial choice or boredom?!