Proms 2014

[kea]

Come on everyone...I posted the original comments to try and get some creative debate going.

I'm not sure what there is to debate. You just posted some of your opinions, so I assumed that was the purpose of the thread, and posted some of mine. If you want an actual debate you have to define an issue and express a clear position on it and appoint moderators and that sort of thing.

[french frank]

My view of the Proms would be that they are, firstly, a fairly middle-of-the-road selection of, not quite lollipops, but a range of 'classics' from not very well known to fairly well known; a sprinkling of 'themes' (such as the RVW symphonies); and a good selection of new work, preferably included in the main evening Prom and designed to get them heard by people who would not normally seek them out.

Urban Classic? Hooray for Hollywood? The MGM musicals? Well, if the Proms are to be the world's largest classical music festival, I don't see the point. I'd rather see a few evenings of the lollipops which might actually bring new audiences to classical music (maybe a couple of reassuring 'signals', like a Herrmann score, or a suite from a musical). And of course, family/children's concerts which aren't outrageously populist but provide a skilful balance between what children already know and like, to get them feeling at home, and then some attractive works that they don't.

The balance must surely be in favour of the bread-and-butter?

[Beef Oven!]

I'd rather see a few evenings of the lollipops which might actually bring new audiences to classical music (maybe a couple of reassuring 'signals', like a Herrmann score, or a suite from a musical). And of course, family/children's concerts which aren't outrageously populist but provide a skilful balance between what children already know and like, to get them feeling at home, and then some attractive works that they don't.

The balance must surely be in favour of the bread-and-butter?

I'm unconvinced that lollipops do what we think they do. Is there not a new audience for classical concerts/classical music lurking within the ranks of the Dr Who fans, film music fans etc?

I don't think the basic assumptions around using lollipops have ever been properly validated. Is not a theme or a subject that people are interested in, more likely to get bums on seats? I don't know.

Similarly with children and music. I have previous experience in this matter and can speak with authority - I am a former child, and I was never enamoured with Peters and wolves and all that stuff. It's a very adult view of what music will resonate with a child.

Should we not stop and ask ourselves what constitutes 'bread and butter'?

[bluestateprommer]

Proms 2014 advance info, 1st post (at least from me)

Or maybe they'll just do a lot of Gluck and Strauss

I wasn't sure when to start my usual Proms advance info thread, but this one seems to have mildly "forced the issue", not that you asked ;) . With that said, I can confirm at least two Richard Strauss operas at Proms 2014, one of which was posted in an earlier and buried thread, but is worth reviving. To wit:

(a) Tuesday, July 22, 2014: Der Rosenkavalier, which will be the annual Glyndebourne Prom. This is per the bass Scott Conner's website:

http://www.scottconnerbass.com/#!schedule/cenl

Glyndebourne's production link is at the following, with the cast as noted:

http://glyndebourne.com/production/der-rosenkavalier

Kate Royal (The Marschallin)
Tara Erraught (Octavian)
Lars Woldt (Baron Ochs auf Lerchenau)
Teodora Gheorghiu (Sophie)
Michael Kraus (Herr von Faninal)
Miranda Keys (Marianne Leitmetzerin)
Christopher Gillett (Valzacchi)
Helene Schneiderman (Annina)
Gwynne Howell (Notary)
Andrej Dunaev (Italian Singer)
Robert Wörle (Innkeeper)
Scott Conner (Police Commissioner)

Maybe it'll occur to some opera company one of these days to cast an Italian tenor as the Italian Singer, but never mind. Richard Jones is the scheduled director, and Robin Ticciati the conductor.

(b) Sometime in August 2014 will be Salome from the Deutsche Oper, Berlin, with Donald Runnicles on the podium. This is per this announcement from the FRG Embassy, London, back in November (!, emphasis mine):

http://www.london.diplo.de/Vertretung/london/en/__pr/Embassy__Events/2013/Deutsche-Oper-Berlin.html?archive=3534276

"On Thursday, 21 November 2013, Chargé d'Affaires a. i. Dr Rudolf Adam welcomed distinguished guests from politics, business and culture to a musical evening with Soprano Dame Felicity Lott and the conductor and General Music Director of the Deutsche Oper Berlin, Donald Runnicles.

The two world-famous artists performed a few of the most beautiful songs by Richard Strauss, whose 150th birthday will be celebrated in 2014.

The musical evening at the German House was to celebrate this upcoming occasion and to support the performance of Richard Strauss's revolutionary Opera Salome by Deutsche Oper Berlin at the BBC Proms in August 2014. Based on Oscar Wilde's sensational play, Salome will also stand for the continuity of British-German cultural relations."

Barring accidents, I will start the searching for advance information in full earnest as the time gets closer in April for the official schedule announcement.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

BSP, you are a treasure.

[MrGongGong]

Come on everyone...I posted the original comments to try and get some creative debate going. After all this is supposed to be a FORUM, not playschool. The comments so far- the ones that make any sense that is- hardly bring anything to the table, do they.

So are you are saying ?
that (in the style of mr G-r-ew?) that you made up some nonsense that you think might be vaguely contentious to see what people would say?

I think that's what is known these days as an "epic fail"

[french frank]

I'm unconvinced that lollipops do what we think they do. Is there not a new audience for classical concerts/classical music lurking within the ranks of the Dr Who fans, film music fans etc?

But - what is the point of a Prom which has next to nothing in the way of classical music? How is that going to attract a new audience of Doctor Who &c fans? Don't forget, when they recorded Urban Classic Prom and then broadcast it on BBC Three for the urban music fans, they cut out the 7 minutes of classical music. So that audience - numbering millions - weren't even allowed to hear it on television.

[Honoured Guest]

The BBC Proms in the Royal Albert Hall are mostly orchestral. Both the Doctor Who Prom and the Urban Classic Prom featured much new orchestral music and orchestrations. I think they merited their place in the concert series on that basis. Part of the "point" of the Proms is to give a prominent public platform to the whole range of orchestral music, and to enrich it with innovations and commissions.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Hmm. You know when Wikipedia articles are queried when they are deemed to be advertising…

[french frank]

The BBC Proms in the Royal Albert Hall are mostly orchestral. Both the Doctor Who Prom and the Urban Classic Prom featured much new orchestral music and orchestrations. I think they merited their place in the concert series on that basis. Part of the "point" of the Proms is to give a prominent public platform to the whole range of orchestral music, and to enrich it with innovations and commissions.

But the point I made about the Urban Classic was not the inclusion of the concert but the exclusion in the televised version of the classical pieces - Mosolov and Henze. I'd assumed they were included in the first place for a reason.

Part of the "point" of the Proms is to give a prominent public platform to the whole range of orchestral music

It is now, apparently. But I still don't understand how not playing classical music wins new audiences for classical music.

[Flosshilde]

That sounds like a perfect Proms season to me
but i'm sure your final pair will get the gig

Well, the final pair would go a long way towards a perfect Prom season for me!

I must try & arrange to be on one of my frequent visits south for the Salome highlighted by bsp.

[Flosshilde]

there is a very odd person keen on it all - the man at the front waggling his flag).

[Beef Oven!]

But I still don't understand how not playing classical music wins new audiences for classical music.

Lots of people got into classical music via an interest in avant garde, experimental rock etc. Many people got into classical concerts via going to other types of music concerts. IMV, it's about getting into behaviours. Of course it's all conjecture, there's no way of knowing - that's part of the reason why the whole question is so challenging.

[Petrushka]

BSP, you are a treasure.

Certainly is. I just love BSP's amazing detective work in trying to get round the Proms embargo and feeding us juicy titbits before the schedule appears.

[Honoured Guest]

But the point I made about the Urban Classic was not the inclusion of the concert but the exclusion in the televised version of the classical pieces - Mosolov and Henze. I'd assumed they were included in the first place for a reason.

I assume that they contextualised the urban orchestrations for the regular BBC Proms audience present in the RAH and listening on Radio 3. I also assume that they would have been offputting to the BBC3 tv audience. The televised programme concentrated on the various solo urban artists who were backed by the orchestra.

But I still don't understand how not playing classical music wins new audiences for classical music.

I don't know that that was the primary aim of the live concert or the audio broadcast or the tv programme. I very much enjoyed the tv programme for itself! Surely the "point" is that the BBC orchestras shouldn't be the exclusive preserve of the "classical music audience", but should also have a wider function and serve a wider audience. And the BBC Proms is the main showcase for the BBC orchestras and so it's highly appropriate that their non-classical work should be featured in the season.